A discussion on a FB Pashtun women's organization compelled me to write the following in response to this question: Photos on FB: From time to time, this question has come up as to why dont Afghan girls show their profile pictures? Is it because we really want to stay private or we dont feel safe ?
I'm so glad you guys are discussing this! It's a huuuge problem, I have to say, because why the hell can't we just be ourselves? Why can't we put up pics of ourselves without fearing that someone will steal them, download them, and upload them to Youtube videos (yes! They do this! Perverts. The only other people I've seen to be backward enough to do this are other Pakistani ethnic groups, like Punjabis), and make fake profiles -- whether of us or with other name but with our photos.
Some males might think they're "teaching girls a lesson" when they do this because, in their opinion, it is haraam/forbidden for girls to show their face in public. Well, let me remind you that this is not how you teach a lesson. First off, most times, the girls don't even know that you've stolen their pics, so what's the point of teaching them a lesson? Second off, who the hell are YOU to teach anyone a lesson? Third off, if you wanna talk about Islam, privacy is one of the most important things in Islam: everyone's privacy is to be respected, and you have no right to steal anyone's pics and claim their profile. You are lying, if that makes it more clear.
Discussing this is the first step - what's the second step? First, how many males decided to participate in this thread? Problem or not? We need their voices too. We need them to stand up with us in showing how and why this is a problem, how it affects Pukhtun girls.
Also, we have to understand why people do with girls' pics what they do with them. As I pointed out earlier, one of the reasons is that they think this is haraam -- if not in Islam, then in our culture: girls are private property (okay, okay - private entities!), and they are not to be exposed in public, whether for good for bad. This is precisely why women have to cover their faces in many Pashtun regions of Pakistan and Afghanistan. (Swat is one of the places where this is done, and I'm from Swat, so I can tell you with certainty that we women are socially required to cover our faces, and it's all because we fear that if we don't, men and women who see us in streets or in public will give our husbands/fathers/brothers/grandfathers/etc. peghor that they say us and recognized us. This is the sickest thing ever - to think that we have problems like this! And then we wonder why our society is so damn behind in so damn many things.) Anyway, so I was saying how it's important to understand why women's pictures are taken from FB and other social networks and abused all over the net.
But we have to ask ourselves: Is *not* showing our pics on these social networks indeed the solution? Or is it possible that if more of us posted our photos, these backward, corrupt-minded, perverted women and men who abuse girls' photos will realize that "You know what? Too many of them are now showing their pics, so I guess there's nothing I can do about it. I guess today's world, what with social networking and all, sort of calls for this. I quit harassing these girls and abusing their privacy. I'm just gonna let them be"? Naaaa - that sounds too reasonable! I don't think pervets think this way. But I sure as hell don't think that our efforts in NOT posting our pics will solve this problem. It only worsens it because it teaches other girls the message that it's wrong to post your pics on FB, etc., and it teaches guys that since girls aren't supposed to be posting their photos, it's okay if you download those photos and spread them around the net.
so you have lived in swat and you know by personal experience that is part of our culture means (purdah )and no boy /man,no matter how great a revolutionary he might be , would ever like that someone stare at his wife sis mother or daughter at least i say that for sawabai now its upto educated people what thaey call it may be love may be respect or may be downright jahiliat but thats the way most of us are yes i know modern education and technology will destroy our culture (both good and bad qulities )
ReplyDeleteawesome post.
ReplyDeleteThanks for you comments, guys!
ReplyDeleteHm.... Naif, all right, so one thing I'd like to understand is what makes it okay for males to show their pics, and there are rarely any (negative) consequences. If it's because our men love/respect us so much they don't want other men to see or stare at us, what makes you or these men of ours who loooove and respect us soooo much think that we women don't care when other women stare or look at our men? If it's about possession and jealousy, lemme remind you that we women are no less possessive than our men! It's prolly just that very few men give a damn about how we feel about their exposing themselves in public? I onno.
QUOTE: "yes i know modern education and technology will destroy our culture (both good and bad qulities)"
Indeed. I think there are many qualities of our culture that actually *deserve* to be destroyed - like anytime where there are double standards involved, no? Those are some of the ones I consider bad qualities. Others may not agree.
Thanks again for your comment!
Ok first of all just a warning as my post might seem very offensive to many of you So qrratugai, I am sorry I don’t know your name lol please do not take it personally. Since I don’t know you personally I am in no way judging you but rather I am responding to certain ideas which you expressed. I liked your post until I read the part, "I'm from Swat, so I can tell you with certainty that we women are socially required to cover our faces.... This is the sickest thing ever - to think that we have problems like this! And then we wonder why our society is so damn behind in so damn many things"
ReplyDeletePardah etc is considered “weird” and yes often very “awkward” in America etc and it can impact us there and often limit the level of acceptance we get from people over here. So if you are living in the West, Pardah is often becomes an obstacle for us here unlike Pukhtunkhwa where pardah is the NORM and believe me the women there prefer it. I am Pukhtana and I don’t wear parhunai or cover my face in America but I have absolutely no problem with pardah in kalai because as the saying goes “when in Rome, rress like the Romans….”
Trust me Pardah is not the reason why those areas are “backward.” I am from Thana Malakand Agency, a village/town whose literacy rate is 98% which is the highest in Pakistan, and guess we all wear parhuni, and YES we all cover our faces. You cannot imagine seeing a girl without parhunai in Thana but also you will hardly find anybody uneducated man or woman over there (not exaggerating Google it!)…Now if you compare this other parts of Pakistan such as Karachi, Punjab etc where you can even wear jeans and yet they have a much lower education ration and still fall under what you call “backward” or underdeveloped.
I can give you countless examples of the Pukhtanai who have done achieved the best of the best of respect and everything without abandoning their Parhunai...As Ghani Khan said, “Pashtun is not merely a race but, in fact, a state of mind”.. Our distinctive culture, code of honor our pride in Pukhtunwali is what makes us Pukhtun or simply the best of all nations. Our people like Imran Khan, Malala, Jan Sher Khan, Sher Shah Suri many others, have shown to the world that they can do anything if they choose. The fact that we follow Pukhtunwali which others call “Backward” is NOT because we are not capable of following up with the modern world but rather we are too good to bother with it. As far as the infrastructural development is concerned, I am sure and have faith in the people of Pukhtunkhwa will improve because they can.
Now regarding your suggestion for dealing with the perverts, so you think that if we start posting our pictures online, it will solve it? Well I am sorry to say but that would be just like if went out wearing mini skirt and guys stare at you, then instead of covering up you just take it off completely to expose yourself…WOW.. Don’t you think a better option would be taking the more sensible approach i.e. reporting those kind of pictures/profile and videos? As far as I know both YouTube and Facebook have very clear policies regarding this kind of things so I am sure if we all could not just close our eyes every time we see anything like and report it we will be able to reduce it. Also, even within Pakistan the National Response Center For Cyber Crimes is known to be very proactive in dealing with people who misuse other people’s pictures etc, it is all a matter of whether or not you report them.
But of course “Swatian” living in America etc don’t have to worry and be concerned about the problems of Pukhtanai in Kalai because you guys just go ahead with your Kabab and biryani parties and attans…but…pleaseeeeee by all means please stop judging Kaliwal Pukhtanai with western feminist views.
Salam to you by giving nice comments. ALLAG Bless you,
DeletePa khair, ak! Thank you for dropping by and commenting!
ReplyDeleteWhile I appreciate your response and the time you took to write it, I have to first state that I think you took my ideas purely out of context here. The way you've replied suggests that I am against the burqa/face-covering of Pukhtun women. Quite the contrary! I find nothing wrong with it, and I did it willingly and enthusiastically while I was in Pukhtunkhwa last summer. (I did it not because I believe, "When in Rome, do as the Romans do," though; I find this principle sheer BS, actually. If everyone thought like this, we'd never progress! How else are we supposed to decide when something's wrong with a certain custom and needs to be fixed? No, I don't believe that outsiders have any right to "solve" other people's issues, but I hope you get my point in thinking that "Do as the Romans do when in Rome" is not something we should be following and supporting.) I covered my face because 1) I was a guest there (I was there for only a month); were I there to stay longer, like several months or a lifetime, I would not do it because of the ways it immobilizes me, restricting my movements when I'm an active girl and believe in social activism. 2) because I found it not to be interfering with any of my principles, such as that of personal freedom and thought. I did it happily for a month, but I most likely would not do it that happily if I were to stay there for a couple of years or forever. Whether all women there like doing it or not is open to question and we can discuss it if you'd like. My interaction with them implied deep frustration with the burqa/parruney, but I did see and understand that many others liked it and wouldn't give it up under any circumstance.
Anyway, back to the quote you took out of context: my problem isn't with the parruney/pardah, which is what you quoted. The full quote, taken from the above post, reads:
"Swat is one of the places where this is done, and I'm from Swat, so I can tell you with certainty that we women are socially required to cover our faces, and it's all because we fear that if we don't, men and women who see us in streets or in public will give our husbands/fathers/brothers/grandfathers/etc. peghor that they say us and recognized us. This is the sickest thing ever - to think that we have problems like this! And then we wonder why our society is so damn behind in so damn many things."
It's the peghor that I stand against; it's the reason behind why women cover that I stand against. It's not that we do it - it's why we do it - that I want us to approach critically.
I also nowhere in this post or anywhere else suggested that we should all post our photos online so that this problem goes away. This is illogical, stupid, and impractical, and it sure as heck won't solve the problem. What I did ask, though, is: Is our not posting pictures on the internet *because of the fear that they will be circulated and uploaded to Youtube videos by perverts* THE solution to this problem? If your or anyone else's answer is yes, then ask yourself this: Do we submit to silence out of fear?
This is like saying that we shouldn't do XYZ because it'll bring us shame or threaten us. If this is how society worked, no one would ever surpass those fears, those threats. We have to face them, and everyone has their own way of facing them. Perhaps for many, yes, not showing their pics online as much as they want to (while their brothers and other male family members enjoy doing this); for others, they might not give a damn and say, "Screw you backwards who think that a girl shouldn't post a picture online." I know both kinds of girls.
(to be continued)
Continuation (word limit, LOL! Sorry! I don't know when Blogger will realize that qrratugai means it when she says she's qrratugai! geez.)
ReplyDeleteYes, one solution is certainly to report the issue to Youtube/Yahoo/Google, etc., but, guluno, they'll remove that video/pic once, but the pervert still has copies of the pictures; it won't be a problem for him/her to just re-upload the photos, no?
But I'm more interested in the cause, the root, of this problem. Why do you think guys, or whoever, do this to girls' pictures? What do you think makes them think this is okay?
Anyway, thanks again for your views! I appreciate them very much and look forward to hearing from you around here. :D
P.S. I was born a kaliwaala, I am a kaliwaala, and I'll always remain one no matter what. And please don't assume I'm your typical western feminist because, as you might read on this blog of mine, I am a huge critic of western feminism because of its judgmental attitude especially towards eastern feminisms. As a Pukhtana myself, I'm fully aware of how our culture works -- but I'm aware not only of what makes it great but also of what makes it un-great! All cultures come with flaws, and ours is no exception. To think that ours is an exception is arrogance and untrue. I'm sure you know better than to think it's flawless, of course. However, the secret to appreciating is to understand its negatives and positives, to realize and appreciate why they're there, and to ask yourself what you can do as an educated Pukhtana to work on those that make it not so great, all the while respecting and appreciating the culture with its infinite flaws like all other cultures.
LOL no offense but whats funny about Pashtuns is that they leave the main topic and start discussing on the cultures thingy !! Like u spoke about the Peghor thing which is the reason for all this Drama !! i know so many families in the middle east like where the number of pashtuns are 60-70% and they let their daughters work, go to colleges without parda..but when they r infront of a Pashtun they should cover !! Like whats the Logic of this?
ReplyDeleteand please dont tell me about Islam Pashtuns were always supporting their culture more than supporting Islam !
if u wanna go by the Islamic way then even talking to your male cousins is Haram then why do we Pashtuns live with our uncles,male cousins in one family?
they can do any thing for the Peghor !! its like hurting their mardangi:P
Qrratugai what can i say about u ..u just know how to make Asma express all her feelings:P
Keep going jaan :**
Ur Sis,
Asma
Thanks for accepting my post. Today I took some time to read your blog and pleased to see a lot of things. I am sure are great deal of information about Pukhtana especially the post about funeral ritual etc that was very informative :)
ReplyDeleteNow back to the point lol, like I said in my previous post, I am not targeting anyone but I am just addressing this mentality of seeing Kaliwal Pukhtanu as backward ignorant people who cannot abandon their “Stone age” life styles and embrace the “modern” world. What bothers me is how these ideas are expressed by Pukhtuns who aren’t even living in Pukhtunkhwa. I mean seriously? It is their worlds just leave them alone. They are happy with it and none of them would want to change it (I mean if you ask the REAL Pukhtanu not the prachcaan, gujraan, shekhelaan, jolagan etc).
I don’t think my response was out of context because the topic was about the privacy of Pashtun girl’s pictures. Pardah/sattar in the context of Pashtun culture (not Islam that is a whole different topic) means hiding your face/body from pradi sarhi. So the virtual pardah is like ensuring you keep your pictures remains hidden from pradi khalak.
Now regarding the dress as the Roman issue, well that is exactly what I am saying that believe me when you or anyone else go to Kalai you will have no choice but to follow what the rest of them are doing because it is the most sensible and ethical thing to do. It is their culture and you must respect it. If anyone does not like it then they should simply refrain from moving there. Different parts of the world have different cultures. I am not against globalization but cultural differences in culture, race, color etc are part of human society and it is natural. Difference is good. It makes the world more beautiful and gives it different flavors. I would NEVER want to live in a world where every single place follow the similar social norms or dress code. Progress does not depend on dress code/customs. Our dress code includes sadar for women and it will remain there you know why because we do not see it as an oppressive thing but rather something which defines and set us apart from the non Pukhtuns. If you ask any kaliwala about the women in West they might say yes they like their fashion sense blah blah but believe me at the end of the day they DO NOT want to be like them! Ask any guy, he might be impressed by their physical appearance etc for some time but at the end of the day you ask him he would NOT want his wife/sister/daughter to be like that. So please whatever you people want to do just do it in America do not try or even attempt to change things for Kalai because that part of the world is pure and should remain pure.
Once again I am sorry if any of this sound like I am targeting anyone in particular.
Thanks
Thanks for replying, ak! Great to hear from you again!
ReplyDeleteWhen I said you took my words of out context, I did not mean that your response was uncalled for or that it wasn't relevant. It was quite relevant since, as you rightly pointed out, it was part of the discussion. What I meant, instead, was that you misquoted me and as a result misunderstood me, since you thought I was against one thing when I was really against something else.
And, naaa, I don't think you're targeting any specific individual. When I suggested that you not jump to incorrect conclusion about me, I was replying to: "pleaseeeeee by all means please stop judging Kaliwal Pukhtanai with western feminist views." Naturally, I assumed "you guys" included me, kana :p
As for clothing and whatnot, I agree with you that saadar etc is a part of our culture, and most of us like it, but I would advise you not to speak for anyone else, no matter how sure you are of their personal preferences. We should never assume the position of representatives for our people especially when people like you and I have lived a life completely unknown to most of our people back home (re: your first comment, in which you said that you've lived in America). Just a piece of advice, though you're welcome to discard it.
Thank you again for coming back and responding! It's always a delight having other Pukhtaney's voices around :D
By the way, I'd love to hear what you've to say about this post: http://qrratugai.blogspot.com/2012/01/pashtun-women-problems-and-solutions.html (I discuss what I perceive as Pukhtun women's problems in one U.S. city.) You might have solutions you could suggest, or perhaps some of the things I see as problems may not be problems in your perspective. Would love to hear your response when you've got a minute :)
ReplyDeleteManana in advance!
While I agree with your point that one single person cannot represent the whole nation and therefore should not speak for others, I just want to let you know that I wrote my reply after discussing it with other Pukhtanu and that sentence, "leave us alone" came from a resident of Pukhtunkhwa lol. Even I myself, although I live in America at the moment, I came here only few months back after spending an year in my village. I plan to go back there soon and live there for good perhaps that is why my perspective is different from other Pukhtanai here.
ReplyDeleteYour other topic about the problems of Pukhtun women in USA sounds interesting. Thanks for sharing :)
Wow, I had no idea that this is the reason why so many Muslim girls don't post their pictures online (I'm saying Muslim here, rather than Pashtun specifically, as I have noticed this with many of my Muslim friends of all nationalities). I used to wonder about it, and I have to say, to a certain degree I thought, can't you even be proud of who you are, and put your own picture up instead of a cartoon character or what not? I never realized the reason for this, and I'm sort of ashamed of my reaction up until now (although I never voiced it, because I believe with this, as with most other things, it's up to the individual and far be it from me to comment on what pictures people use). Thank you for opening my eyes!
ReplyDeleteVery interesting subject :) My wife has used everything from Winnie The Pooh to photos of trees on Facebook. She now has one of her in full chador (burqa). We know very well what types of sick degenerates can be found amongst humanity... especially on the internet. Westerners could never genuinelly understand this concept.
ReplyDeleteSo your main problem is that why we, pashtun girls, can not put our own pictures as profile picture in FB, like the rest of the people?
ReplyDeleteWell, first off, Arn't you the one who says that mostly pashtun people put aside Islamic laws for their cultural beliefs? ( and it is true pashtuns do that) but it isn't something good. Then you come here and discuss this topic putting aside all the Islamic rules regarding this topic to base this all on your personal feelings.
One would put up their picture to show their identity right? Most afghan girls, instead of keeping their normal pictures, keeps sort of seductive, slutty pictures (i can show you hundreds of authentic profiles such). Are we to say that is to show their identity?, its freaking obvious she wants attention, and certainly not from us the females. What sort of message does such pictures convey?
Most of these girls are the ones who wear regular scarves in daily life, but when it comes to internet, It is as if their inner personality just splashes out without regards to who they are, without respect to their religion. Can't they be just normal just like they would appear in real life? and post their regular decent pictures with their scarfs like a regular pashtun girl would? even if its not the Islamic head scarf, the traditional scarf which looks so beautiful. without having to expose her self in explicit manner. ( be it a certain pose, or showing off her cleavage or her inappropriate clothing).
The men however, are very wrong in their action towards all this, They aswell need punishing for this behavior. How can they accept such thing for their sisters, no matter what she has done, humiliating someone is never the option.
The solution is not to just bombard our pictures until it becomes something normal among them, it is either to post no picture at all (better than what most girls post nowadays), or, to put decent pictures without having that cake of a makeup or having to put inappropriate pictures of them selves. If you put decent picture that shows good about you and then no one would want to harm you either in anyway.
Hello, Anonymous!
ReplyDeleteThank you so much for dropping by and providing your two-cents!
Sighs. Let's first make it clear that I don't consider this "my problem," lol :p I don't talk about my own problems on my blog.
QUOTE: "Arn't you the one who says that mostly pashtun people put aside Islamic laws for their cultural beliefs?"
Nope. I don't remember saying this anywhere.
QUOTE: "Then you come here and discuss this topic putting aside all the Islamic rules regarding this topic to base this all on your personal feelings."
All the Islamic rules on this topic? Why don't you enlighten us about those rules, Anonnie? I'm all ears.
QUOTE: "One would put up their picture to show their identity right?"
Not necessarily. There can be, and are, many different reasons why someone would choose to put up her/his own pictures on social networks than pics of trees or "slutty celebs" or whoever.
QUOTE: "Are we to say that is to show their identity?, its freaking obvious she wants attention, and certainly not from us the females. What sort of message does such pictures convey?"
So, according to your understanding of these girls, they put up slutty pics or pics of trees and so on to seek attention? 1. So what that they're seeking attention? 2. Very few girls do this. Let's rememebr that Afghan girls raised in the west tend to dress and behave much differently than the Pashtuns from Pakistan -- very, very generally speaking, of course. Now, regardless of what kinds of pics these girls put up, no one has any right to steal them and put them onto youtube videos and such. You don't see anyone doing that to boys' pics when they show their slutty pics, do you? Or does "slutty" only refer to females here?
QUOTE: "Can't they be just normal just like they would appear in real life?"
Thsi is a very heavy statement and question, don't you think? What is "normal"? Why must you burden them with the responsibility of "respecting" their/our religion in one particular way?
Also, it's very unlikely that girls who're hijabi in REAL life would post their slutty pics online. What on earth?
(continued)
ReplyDeleteQUOTE: "... and post their regular decent pictures with their scarfs like a regular pashtun girl would? even if its not the Islamic head scarf, the traditional scarf which looks so beautiful."
Whoa :p "regular" ... I've always wondered what that means. I suppose we all know what a regular Pashtun girl looks and thinks and believes and behaves like, ai. As for the scarf looking "so beautiful," well, what can I say - as we all should know, we all pereive beauty differently. According to me, for instnce, the sscarf/hijab isn't beautiful unless it's worn a certain way, unless it's really beautiful and flashy and matches the girl's outfit, and so on. BUT!! Remember that the main reason the girl is told to cover her head or wear the hijab is so that she doesn't attract men, which mean so that she doesn't look beautiful according to men. If you find a girl in scarf more beautiful or her scarf beautiful, does it not defeat the purpose of the hijab altogether? I think it does/
QUOTE: ".... to put decent pictures without having that cake of a makeup or having to put inappropriate pictures of them selves. If you put decent picture that shows good about you and then no one would want to harm you either in anyway."
While I do agree with you that the kinds of pics you choose to put on your profile say a lot about your character, I have to disagree with you in deciding for other people what they should and should not put up. It is entirely their business. However, my post wasn't even a reference to the "indecent" photos you speak of -- I was talking about purely decent photos of girls, whether with or without a headcovering but certainly not "slutty" or showing any skin, even arms.
I'm really not sure what you're arguing for or against here. Are you implying in any subtle way that these girls deserve to have their photos stolen and circulated via the web?
Thanks again for your comment! Hope to see you around more often.
Dear everyone,
ReplyDeleteThank you so much for your comments! It's great to hear different perspectives on the issue, or what I deem an issue.
@ AK: I'm not dismissing the suggestion of some Pukhtun women that they be left alone because they're happy the way they are, but I just wanted/want to remind you that there'll always be people who'll appreciate when people seek their opinions about life and society and those who'll reject any sort of "intrusion," as some would call it, into their lives and society. I, too, know many Pukhtun women who hate that being talked "about" as though they are miserable, oppressed, mistreated, but I know at least as many who appreciate it and are willing to vent their frustrations with our social issues with anyone who's willing to do something about it or to just talk with them about it all. Pukhtuns are not alone in sharing these frustrations; we know they're prevalent all over the world, but each society has different ways of venting them and each one has different types of frustrations. However, Pukhtuns tend to share many of theirs with Arabs.
@ Asma: Your support is deeply appreciated!
@ Becky: So glad you found this helpful and that I was able to "open your eyes," though you tend to do that far more on your blog that I may with mine.
@ Khushal: Great to hear from another Pukhtun male! You're right - it'd be difficult, if not impossible, for most westerners to grasp this. It's difficult even for those Pukhtuns who have been born and raised in the west, let alone westerners themselves.
Thanks again, y'all!