Serious disagreement on this one points in this post. This one overhere...
// For Pashtuns, any group of people in Pakistan who doesn't speak Pashto or who is not Pashtun is a Punjabi. That means that all the Baloch, the Kashimiri, the Sindhis, and actual Punjabis are all Punjabis to Pashtuns. I'm not kidding - feel free to verify with any Pashtun you know.//
I dont remember any phase of my life where I thought this way, nor did my family, not even my extended family, friends, or even my village fellows. We are very aware of the diversity around us.
I've experienced it in some diluted form in the north though, I am from Pashtunlands down south.
It usually comes together with "Punjabi-asthan" thing and could be extended to Urdu speaking community as well, cuz of that "Urdu Hegemony" thing again. Call them nationalist rants. But I strongly feel that Pashtuns are very aware of who Punjabis are, how they are not Sindis, Baluchs,Urdu speaking or even the related Seriaki, Hindko, pothohari etc.
Thanks so much for reading and commenting, Empror!
I'm surprised but happy to hear your folks don't see all non-Pashtuns or all Urdu-speakers as Punjabis! It's something that the Twitter Pukhtuns are talking about all the time, too, and it's one of the top points in the "You know you're Pukhtun when ..." trends! :) That for Pashtuns in Pakistan, there's only two groups of people: Pukhtuns and non-Pukhtuns, haha.
But good to hear your folks know better than to believe that.
I am a Potohari Punjabi and for your ignorance Potohari means a person living in Potohar. It is not some ethnicity. We have a different dialect but we call our self as Punjabis. Also Mostly Hindkos constitute Punjabi tribes like Kayanis, Awans, Maliks etc so they are closely related to Punjabis. Some dielect difference dont make you a different person. Moreover Punjabi definition is geographical and cultural so many Kashmiri migrants are also known as Punjabis right now.
Punjabi distrust stems from the fact of Backstabbing of Pukhtoons in the past when they attacked Punjab in late 17th century. Also they tried to attack Punjabi mainlands when they were Turkic slaves of Lodhis and Ghaznavis. Moreover in Potohari dielect there are many sayings of the 17th century like "Jaira Labbay Aaj hi kha lawo, Kal tai Durrani ai wi lai jao" ( Whatever you have eat today otherwise Durrani Dacoits from North will took it away ) . In the 17th century onwards many Pukhtoons attacked North Punjab for looting purposes and Fort Rohtas was made by the looted money what was later captured by the local Warriors known as Ghakkars of Potohar from Pukhtoons,
Punjabis dont hate anybody but they were looted and plundered by Pukhtoons in the past and that let to stereotypes and distancing that still prevails today. Also We as Punjabis know the stereotypes of Pushtoons very well like you call us Daal Khors, Chooray and you call our Women as "Chindakhs (Female Frog in Pushto). You will never see any Punjabi making racial jokes about Pukhtoon women but you do it with our Punjabi women. So do read the history of backstabbing and looting that why this happens in the first place and who is to blame then.
Thanks for your input, Anonymous! I appreciate your thoughts!
I understand you want to believe that Punjabis do not say negative things about Pashtun women, but that's not true, as I've clarified in the post above. I also undersatnd you want to believe that Punjabi stereotypes against Pashtuns are based in facts, but that's also not true.
Ironically enough, though, a lot of the Pashtuns here in this blog and those who commented to this post on Facebook also insist that Pashtuns don't hate Punjabis the way Punjabis hate us, that Pashtuns' stereotyping of Punjabis is based in facts!
Clearly, there's a lack of knowledge and a terrible ignorance on both parts and the solution is to spend enough time with each other with an open mind to learn about each other and respect each other. So there's no one side to blame entirely; it's both sides who are at fault equally, and both need to work towards correcting the problem.
That's true by the way, a Pashtun friend of mine from DIR was joking that subconsciously we pashtuns have two nation theory as well, and it goes some thing like this, Pakistan has two nations 1. pashtuns 2. Punjabis/Non-Pashtuns
It is funny though that even people of Afghanistan hate Punjabis. My whole family has a soft corner for Afghans because of the fact that they are suffering from wars imposed upon them. But to my surprise i came across an afghan 3 years back and he was educating me about how us punjabis(including me) have destroyed Afghanistan and i was like "WOW" never realized we are that bad.
Wawo, Again such a Brilliant & reasonable topic. #love it. Yes it is very true that we mock punjabi's as sama as they do us. Mung hagawe ta pa dheer baad naazar goro, though we call ourselves human beings and That too Peace lovers (lol), but unfortunately we hate them to bits (mind set up, since ages) Ka mung zanta tahzeeb yaafta qaom wayo, nu mung la pakar de che we should love them, cox they too are human beings, ho zamong bad qismati daa da che mung pukhtana just da yo so Politicians da waje da tool qaom na nafrat kao, o kanzal o spak bad raad warpase wayo. Pa de topic ke dheeere hbre de
Dheer Khukali topic de choose kRe de, I'm going to share it. #Loveit. Speen.
Wawoo- Again such a Brilliant & Reasonable Topic here for us... You are so keen observer, trust me loving this writing.
Yes, that's very true that, punjabi's making fun of us, making different jokes, and named them as " Aik Pathan thaa" etc etc. But it's also a bitter truth, that we Pakhtuns/Pashtuns also making fun of them, mocking them, abusing them in different ways.
I know some of my Pashtoon well educated friends(on face book) they call themselves well mannered, well educated, Peace lovers, & Humanist, but when it comes to Punjabis, "Nu Dheer Gaad Wadd Khabre Shoro Kee" Don't know why we hate that people's that much? Haga Insanan Na de? If they are, nu bia waly da yo so Politicians da waje mung da tool qaoom na nafrat kao??
Ka hagwe na poege, nu mung ho poego kana che "Loyee Mazhab Insaniyaat De Muhabbat Loyya Sajjda Da".
Dheer Ziat khukali topic de, zama ho dheer khawah sho, dheer khaista topic de.
Thank you so much Qrratugai for such a Brilliant Write. :)
LOVE the Sail's reference! Loye mazhab insaniyat dey, muhabbat loya sajda da! (The poem sung by Fayaz Khan Khishgi is one of my favorites ever! It's so beautiful!)
Thanks for your readership and insight, Spin gwala! It's such a relief to see Pashtuns acknowledging that we're also at fault in this whole stereotyping business!
I also am interested to know why the mutual hatred is there, what once up on a time initiated it. There must be a reason, right? I mean, why specifically Punjabis? (To anyone who reads this question and wants to answer it, I won't accept any biased answers - nothing like "because they hate us" or "because they're ugly" will be tolerated.)
The verse is by Sail :) It's a poem also sung by Fayaz Khan. The poem's called something like "Za pa de pa haghe na yam." Listen to it on Youtube here: Za Pa De Pa Haghe Na Yam
Such, such khaista shayari!
But, hey, if you know for sure that it's by Ghani, lemme know! I've been attributing it to Sail all this time!
I think it's Ghani Khan as zama da tra zoye ma ta dwa drey kala makhkshee wayelo woo and I trust his opinions when it involves Ghani Khan and Takkar but ta ye khamakha attributing to Sail. I would attribute it to Ghani Khan anyways even if I didn't know the poet because it's gutsy lines. References that may change your dogged opinion ! " http://www.destaar.com/hujra/viewtopic.php?t=2022 " " http://pashtopoetry.wordpress.com/category/uncategorized/page/7/ "
The references could've have been better but I reckon they'd work if I was provided. And sta da page sra sa laanjaa da maybe some glitches ?
Till now I was a silent reader of your blog but going to comment this time!! like 'empror" I will also like to disagree on the above mentioned point because majority of the people from South have a sense of this. The only problem people from South I mean Pashtuns (Pakhtuns) have they call each individual from north a Peshawari due to change of their accent from south ignoring the fact that only people from peshawar can be called as a Peshawari. Another misconception among the rest of pakistanis is that they call us "Baluchi' because we are from Baluchistan not realizing that we are Pashtuns and Baluchi means something different. You even can't call a Baluch a Baluchi because the two terms are different its just like some one call u Pashtuni instead of Pashtun. Baluchi is a language and Baluch are the followers of that language like pashtho and pashtuns.1/2
Thanks for your response, Estranger! (Note: I only received 1 of your 2 comments, not both - feel free to write the other one at your convenience.)
Thanks, also, for clarifying the whole "all non-Pashtuns in Pakistan are considered Punjabi" thing - I'm happy to know that not all Pashtuns believe that! And sorry that people mis-classify you as Baloch just because you live in Balochistan. It's ignorance and a lack of interest in understanding the truth/reality on the part of those who believe this and those who don't understand why correct classifications of ethnic identity is important to so many communities around the world.
Brilliant as ever..and indeed an excellent subject to discuss to clear some of the dust around here even on FB beside outside in actual life. I have lived in Punjab for bulk of my life and can say for sure that on the personal level or even collective group level, the Punjabies don't hate us as much as we do...however, why it becomes more painful and significant for us and inducers reaction is because Punjabis stereotyping of Pashtuns is seen as institutionalized ( as you very well highlighted). I think the traditional stereotyping was not so serious and in fact tolerated on both sides with some grace, despite the fact that Punjabis attempts at ridicule probably were aimed at stigmatizing and corrupting our culture ( may not be so but the perception was pretty strong and not without a reason) . However, currently because of the events of the recent past this has taken a very serious shape. Most Pashtun today will hate Punjabies not for the fact that they are punjabies but because they see the Punjab (which most consider synonymous with Pakistan) as the oppressor that is bent upon destroying our culture, our language, our collective lives and push us into a dark age ...( You know the politics of it...). On the point highlighted by Emperor, I think he has a point. I also tend to believe that Pashtun stereotyping punjabies does not extend to the other ethnicities....though on the lowest tier of society, ppl do find it difficult to differentiate between Punjabi, Mohajirs and may be Sindhies. Riaz Papin
Thanks for your insight, Riaz lala! Ahhh - you've sort of answered our question (mine and Speen Khan's) of what might be the root causes of this mutual hatred! For Pashtuns, it's that the Punjabis are dominating Pakistan and oppressing other ethnic groups and minorities, especially Pashtuns. I've heard this perspective before, but I remember reading responses to it that challenged the whole notion that "Punjabis" dominate Pakistan, that Punjabis rule other ethnicities and so on. I'll look more into it and write about it again later on, ka khairee.
Please visit southern Punjab and see it for yourself how people of south are living their lives. Ordinary people from punjab are suffering at the hands of Punjabi ruling elite too. Punjabis have helped two sindhis (Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto and Benazir Bhtto) to become prime ministers of Pakistan 4 times. Now many of them are idolizing Imran Khan(a pathan of punjabi origin). Musharraf a non punjabi ruled Pakistan for ten years. Yahya Khan and Ayub Khan were not Punjabis too. Only Zia Ul Haq was Punjabi ruler of Pakistan. Even Nawaz sharif is a kashmiri.
lol very true. punjabi rulers, its just that ruling elite is considered as default punjabi. i had a hunzai friend who lamented the same thingh and an urdu speaking one who would constantly call musharraf punjabi. i think mainly its to do with poor distribution of resources over all pakistan and the fact punjab is wealthiest province that leads ofover simplification of matter. in all honesty an oiver hauling of whole system would get rid of these gripes
we pashtuns don't just come to national tv and mock other ethnicity. punjabis are most corrupt nation in pakistan. the leadership of terrorists are based on punjab. yet pahktuns are being labeled as terrorists. what an irony! it seems punjabis are determined to revenge on us.
Thanks for your input, Anonymous! Appreciated! I believe the post above discusses the whole "coming to national tv and mocking others" issue - and it talks also about how Pashtuns mock people in return as well but in different ways. Which way is better, which way worse isn't my concern.
This is really a nonsense Post trying to pussyfoot around the issue. Punjab controls Pakistan. PUNJabi is Pakistani. When the master stereotype and "joke " about a minority,whther Pashtun,Baluch or Sindhi it is racism and entrenched prejudice that is harmful and dangerous as they have the power of state,army and violence on their side. To equate Joking of their maters wayward ways is not equal to the power that Punjab have over other minorities. Punjab dominate media and efefctively employs stereotype and prejudice to serve their power interest. Pashtun jesting is benign as they have no state power to effectuate their threats or jokes. Please dont be disengenious and eqaute the Punjabi and Pashtun ,the one is ruler and other is ruled. This is similar to apartheid when the stereotype,racism of one was enforced through power and institution which was controlled by white man.the other was just defending themselve from falsity and evil powerplay.
Thanks a whole bunch for your response, Pashtun pimpernel!
Respectfully, I disagree with your perspective, as indicated so in my above post. But I understand that in your opinion, what Pashtuns say and do to Punjabis isn't racism or bigotry or mockery; it's only mockery and bigotry and racism and all other things bad when Punjabis do it to Pashtuns. I understand this, but I disagree with it and think it's false and makes no sense. I wish we'd recognize our wrongs as well and stop blaming other people all the time even when we're at fault as well.
In first part of the comment I talked about Pashtun sense of recognition & rest of Pakistanis perception about Pashtuns living in Southlands.. Now coming to second part of the topic i.e racism among the two Pashtuns and punjabis, it has deep roots some where down in history may be from the Russian entrance in the holy land of Pashtuns or may be earlier, but lets focus on this 3 decades, oh three decades needs hell of a time to discuss it, so let me save your time by providing following links from @Pir rokhan's blog hoping Pir sb will not mind it.... http://pashtoonkhwa.blogspot.com/2013/04/the-political-thought-of-mahmud-khan.html .. Now why i'm saying to read political thoughts of masher, that's because when ever he speaks in public or to large gatherings he talks about inequality, rights, oppressor & the oppressed, and much more so here the story of big brother starts I mean Punjab and the way he treats his younger bro's. He is right in all his sayings no doubt in that but the followers get the message in a wrong way that is hatred for comm'on Punjabis, but it should be for the elite and ruling class. their is no doubt neither to me nor to any one else having knowledge and sense of the history of Pak that what they did to east pakistan and now with Baluchs and Pashtuns. Pashtuns IDP'S were not allowed to enter Punjab, borders were sealed and neither to Karachi labelled you as a Talib and during his 97 regime they banned flour, wheat to kpk as they were busy stocking it in Punjab and provided you " boosa" one used for animals to use it in place of wheat. Now let me provide you another link from the sum guy's blog, titled the Pashtun issue and you may find it useful in understanding the root cause of racism among the too. http://pashtoonkhwa.blogspot.com/2010/03/pashtun-punjabi-debate-part-ii.html
khuri if you look at it from political and economical perspective not from social perspective than you may get your answer of racism among the too. Te da Nar lur ya and I appreciate the way you think and write and represent Pashtuns in this intangible world with courage and honour. I'm not disagreeing on what you have written that both are equally involved in racism, yes they are in their own way but I tried to shed some light on the root cause of it and may be I'm wrong but with discussions with intellects like you it helps me to head towards right direction. Regards Saeed.
qrratugai khuri I wrote down almost 2 pages for my second half of comment on racism among the too to explain the root cause of it from not not only Social perspective but from political and economical perspective too but alass! with just one wrong click i have to write it back from the scratch uh! not possible now coz i'm going to sleep now so to participate in #MamaQadeer long march 2morro if you are aware of it already reached Islamabad, but for your understanding i am leaving two links from #Pirroshan's Blog hope he will not mind it :-) http://pashtoonkhwa.blogspot.com/2013/04/the-political-thought-of-mahmud-khan.html http://pashtoonkhwa.blogspot.com/2010/03/pashtun-punjabi-debate-part-ii.html I agree with you that it's from both sides but whats the root cause behind it only possible if we look back at least 3 decades. khudai di tal khwashala ao abad lare...
Bigotry in all forms should be condemned but I will also say that as a Pukhtun from Pakistan who was not anware of his ethnic identity until moving abroad at the age 15 and even then not so much. It was only after I met with some other pakistanis at university when I began to look more into my culture. The reason for this was because no matter how hard I tried I could not relate to them. Not to mention the fact they kept bringing up negative stereotypes which I was never aware of nor understood. I realized that these people didn't view me as pakistani and had severe issues of their own. These panjabis and mahajirs were/are obsessed were obsessed with things like skin colour and castes and the ridiculous concept of martial races and other shallow issues. And on my returns to Pakistan I found this to be even more true. Case in point, the anon aboves comment about Pashtuns being Lodhi and Ghaznavid slaves (Lodhis are Pashtun and Ghaznavids were basically Turks but many of the matriarchs and generals were Afghan) reeks of insecurity. He even goes as far as to fabricate the Rohtas Fort incident forgetting the Gakkars and Humayun were allies with Tareen and Tanoli forces. Its part of the reason why I can't take Indian authors seriously. Everything is about how they weren't really defeated or how their gallantry was unmatched or whatever. When you ask "well weren't like a million panjabis enslaved by the Afghans?" "No those figures are wrong and we fought back and ranjot singh". Who they love to quote glossing over that his "great" army was an alliance between the British and Shah Shuja loyalists especially his own faction of Durranis andmany Yusufzai and Khattak. And somehow the Afghans were dishonoured by their short lived and meagre gains which they themselves helped in. Its true many Pukhtuns have many bad habits but I see their mockey of panjabis as a reaction to mocking from insecure panjabis who are supposedly so noble yet they descend from Turks, Persian, Afghans, Kashmiris or Arabs. We are almost the same as Sindhis on number and put in more than our fair share with far less resources and with hostility from Tajiks, Persians, Indians and the West. Yet when our schools explode or our women are victimized, well its always like yeah that's how they are, completely forgeting the number of gang rapes condoned by their panchyats and councils on children as young as 4. Don't get me wrong there is good and bad about every thing but I haven't seen Pukhtuns with the same kind of negative perceptions of other ethnic groups as panjabis or indian mahajirs. I call out anything I see as politically incorrect or wrong but I genuinely don't feel like I can or want to relate to pakistan and as time goes on more and more Pukhtuns like the Balochis already are realizing that the distribution of resources, national language, the culture, the foreign and domestic policy of pakistan benefit lahore more than it does the entire country.
thats rather sad. i am a punjabi and i liuved in pakistan till earlierbyrs of my life . but if this rift and this unequal distribution of resources is not sorted i guess it wont be before pakistan will lose another precious part. and many punjabis i kniw just jump up to defend punjab without have any information or knowledge about distribution of resources. in any case countries that donot learn to blend theiur ethinicities often fail and i hope punjabis, akhtoons, balochis, kashmairis etc can work out, respect and cherish tejiur differences.
I don't like Pashtun's boasting about themselves all the time. Most of them boast on their looks and bravery whereas both of these things they lack. Having fair skin doesn't mean that you are beautiful. Homosexuality is widely practised in Pashtun regions. So how can be a nation with such a large number of homosexuals be brave? Pashtuns call Punjabis as daal khors and as a matter of fact scientifically it's proven that those who eat more meat have low iq and intelligence.That's why Punjabis are more intelligent because they have progressed in every field whereas Pashtuns have progressed in nothing except killing each other, drug smuggling and norcotics.
I agree that skin color, bravery, and other such traits (that never actually apply to the whole nation or group! Just to a few; and they're not natural or inherent but adopted).
But I don't get your point about homosexuality and how a nation with so many homosexuals can't be brave. What does homosexuality have to do with bravery?
And LOL @ the "scientifically proven" part about those who eat more meat have a low IQ. Actually, Pashtuns eat just as much meat as non-Pashtuns. Have you ever been to the Middle East? I don't know if you're from Pakistan or not, but meat-eating is an extremely popular and beloved thing among *all* group in Pakistan, including Punjabis. So that scientific point of yours is backfiring all right. But, of course, science isn't so stupid or dumb to claim something as ridiculous as that.
Even as the above post shows, Pashtuns are just as good and just as bad as any other group of people out there. You don't get to say "Pashtuns are X while People B are Y." That's just never, ever true, and that's called racism and hatred and bigotry and evil and all other things unacceptable.
Besides, Pashtuns are my people, in case I haven't made it clear around here. And I love them for whatever their flaws are <3 So you don't get to BS about *my* people.
I don't appreciate your bigotry, and I do not welcome it. If you have similar such evil to spew on my blog, your comments will be deleted.
Also Pashtuns ghairat is a self made sense of grandeur. I don't agree with the statement in the above article about the proposal/marriage of a Pashtun with Punjabi "Your parents will go, "WHAT!! No way in HELL are we ever going to stoop to the level of marrying our daughter to a Punjabi! No!" Does it really bring shame to Pashtun family to marry a Punjabi? Had that been a case then a Pashtun guy would have preferred death over marrying a woman like Veena Malik who was not only a Punjabi but also had very bad reputation. But just because of her wealth and fame her married her. Pashtun's won't mind reputation when the matter is related to money. They can even marry a woman of their mother's age for money. Sorry to say but that's the reality.
Meat eaters have low IQ and it is scientifically proven. Human beings by physical constitution are apes and all apes are vegetarians and not meat eaters. If you think that by eating meat will increase your IQ then you are totally wrong.
I think you should not delete other people's comments based on hate Let everyone read them because that way you are showing them the mirror to look at their real face. Homosexuality has lot to do with bravery in my view. I think homosexuals are only brave on women and not on men if it is regarding physical strength although mentally homosexuals are sharper than hetrosexuals.But gay women have more physical strength than straight women on the other side. Here we are talking about Pashtuns being gays. That is a truth that Pashtuns are mostly gays. It's because of their strict tribal code of Pashtunwali which is based on complete segregation of women from men.Hence men find love interest in their own gender.Pashtunwali is a barbaric, sub-human, pre-historic tribal code among Pashtuns and is inculcated in the mind of every Pashtun no matter how much educated he becomes in his life. Still at the back of his mind this tribal code of Pashtunwali is running. So this tribal code of Pashtunwali is running in the head of every Pashtun.This tribal code is based on sense of grandeur, superiority,self-praise and fake sense of vanity and treating women as sub humans. I think once Pashtuns will come out of this "Pashtunwali" then not only they will come out of their homosexuality but will also progress in other fields of life. Then instead of hatred against Punjabis they will defeat them with their intelligence and creativity.
Master Illusions, great advice on keeping the comments of people full of hate - I decided to keep yours (but these are the only bigoted comments of yours I'm going to let publish). My blog is a space of love, unity, power, acceptance, tolerance, and there's absolutely no room here, alhamdulillah, for any form of hate.
LOL @ your claim that "Pashtuns are mostly gay" - they're not mostly gay, but if they were, there'd be nothing wrong with that because there's nothing wrong with being gay. My sincerest condolences to you for thinking homosexuality is wrong.
As for your claims against Pashtun and gender segregation: Would you know, westerners have the same idea about ALL Muslims doing that because guess what :) Gender segregation has roots in Islam; Pashtuns simply happen to be following Islam, according to them. Don't ever fool yourself into thinking Punjabis and other Muslim ethnic groups are immune to gender segregation or other strict versions of Islam that you prefer to believe are problems only among Pashtuns.
And thanks for your suggestion, but we Pashtuns are quite happy with Pashtunwali :) We're keeping it, and the last person we're going to listen to is a human full of anger and bitterness for reasons we are not even interested in investigating. We can only wish you peace because you certainly need it.
Dear Fellow Pashtun girl it's good for you to keep your Pashtunwali and good for you to keep posting articles like above which actually promote hatred and show a very deep insight to your personality..
@Master illusions I have read your comments about "Pukhtoons being Gay". After reading the article and comments of the fellow readers I must appreciate the fact that mostly pukhtoon readers (not all) appreciated the good work of the author and shared the same views that measures must be taken to live like a nation and give mutual respect to every one living in Pakistan. Now coming towards the "Gay" stereotype created by punjab I will refer you to these findings. Reference : Capital Talk Geo News Top ten cities of Pakistan in child sexual abuse: 1. Rawalpindi 2. Lahore 3. Quetta. 4. Aokara 5. khair pur 6. Faisal Abad 7. Pakpathan 8. Kasour 9. Sailkot 10. Shekhopura Can you please elaborate why there is so much sexual frustration despite the fact that there is no segregation of opposite sex in Punjab. For KPK you blamed it on "Pukhtoon wali". How would you explain that for Punjab? Secondly I will also suggest you to keep out of your shell and explore different cultures and visit at least KPK, it may help you in overcoming your ignorance. I will also take this opportunity to please give a proper scientific reference about your claims that meat is the cause of low IQ.
Dear Aleena, Thank you for dropping by and participating this conversation. Unfortunately, your comments were too offensive and I had to delete them without even publishing them. I trust you'll be more careful in your language in the future. I do not tolerate any kind of racism and other prejudice on my blog, whether it comes from Pashtuns against Punjabis (as was yours) or vice versa - or from others to others.
This is very interesting. I am an ethnic Kashmiri from the disputed Kashmir Valley (we are only about 6 million and speak our own language "Koshur" which is a language isolate completely different from the Punjabi dialiect spoken in Azad Kashmir). Ethnic Kashmiris also colloquially describe all people south of the Kashmir Valley as "Punjaeb" (ie Punjabi). Many of us also, unfortunately, call all people south of us "Daal Khor" and see ourselves as kings of meat eaters (we have 34 courses of meat served at our weddings - to be shared in a giant tray between 4!). Elders tell me that when ethnic Kashmiris had to go to Punjab (Lahore) (before Pakistan was created) to find work, locals used to derogatively call us "Haatho" - meaning people who work with their hands - since in those days we did labouring and we hated that term. Its nothing as vicious as the Pashtun-Punjabi thing you have described though! It is more just neighbourly rivalry.
Hey I loved your post and found it very informative. I'm from that part of the world too and honestly no longer identify with any of the ethnicities or sub-ethnicities because its so stupid, confusing and racist. I'm proud of what Muslims (and non-Muslims) have accomplished in south Asia but isn't it about time we all became universalists and loved each other all the same. Racism is for stupid people.
I have seen people associate white skin to people but at the same time I have seen plenty ugly and darker tone pathans.. even some of the white ones don’t look good.. Moreover the other ethnicites in Pakistan have people with white skins, but the pathans label them as monkeys, to that end I have just one thing to say, monkeys still have a higher IQ than donkeys with white color ! A monkey rides the donkey not the other way round. To sum up pathan/taliban culture see this bacha bazi video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ag5fl2S4juQ
What's wrong with "darker tone" people, though? What a tragedy that you've to turn to people's looks and comment on whether they're ugly or beautiful to make a point.
I pray to God to bring peace and happiness in your life so you don't have to resort to comments like the above to make yourself heard, aameen. God be with you and all of us!
Enough internet for today! Anonymous, the fact that you had to resort to such derogatory comments says it all about you. The author criticized BOTH Pakhtuns and Punjabis for having stereotypes about each other-- not just Punjabis. People like you are a clear example of how we-- Pakhtuns and Punjabis-- think of each other. Spread love, brother, not hatred. May peace be with you!
Excellent piece, Orabala! More strength and courage to you! Da Allah pa amaan!
So where are your guts honey, post my comments and the link I shared about your perverted pathan brethern wanting to fuck little kids... "dare to opine" ..why dont you dare to post my comments.. and the video link..
true ,,,,but pushtoons are always feeling that every body is there enemy except pushtoon......they have lot of nationism,,,,,,thats why punjabies hated them,,,,in punjab they are good average,,,,,i lived in peshawar from childhood as im son of an army officer,,,,,basically im from islamabad..but in their own land they behaving wrost with punjabies in evry way,,,,,,e.g......in classroom or in sports etc......im not talking about all but majorty....one thing some pushtoons are too much good,,,,very less,,,,,and punjabies are average people,,,,in every where they are not too good bad average,,,,even my best friend is pushtoon,,,,but one thing that pushtoon have loyal to other pukhtoon even when he is wrong....thats i hate much,,,,,,,,i understand pushto ,,,,and i know pushtoons from inside,,,,sometime when they think i not know pushto and he pass comments about me in pushto,,,,which huts.....every nation has some bad habbits ...and this habbit is in pushtoon,,,,am i right pushtoons??????????????????? say true or dont say
I don't think there's anything wrong being " Proud and Nationalist ". I'm a Proud Pashtun Nationalist and that's because our Pashtuns have suffered a lot and I feel it. Being Pashtun Nationalist doesn't mean I despise other ethnicity but rather love mine Pashtuns better than others. We don't need to be labeled so called patriotic pakistani as I don't reckon we crave for it. It's better to brag about yourselves rather than riddling others with smutty & nasty words. From the thread yet again we're stereotyped as gays and nation with low IQ because of we eat meat ! Hahaha ! I wouldn't recommend any Pashtun to marry other ethnicity in pakistan even if their life depended on it. Qrratugai for you .... I reckon you're another admirer of something we call it maashertee aloom ( mutalaa pakistan ) but it's not your fault to flaunt as you've got a lot folks too who somehow consider themselves patriotic pakistani in the name of love, peace and so on. And you've got right of being entitled to your opinion. Da Pashtano mrasta bekhee muhemma da ghareeban ghark sho da mazhab ao da ghairat pa nama ! Long Live Pakhtunkhwa !!! Pashtuns should strive their ways not to be used as tools for other interests in the name of pakistani patriotism and religion !
tribes and nations are for identifications according to quran saying,,,,,,and how can you support any one when he is wrong bcz he is your fellow pushtoon....this is th thing i was trying to say..please read the last adress of prophet muhammad saww,and,,iam also not imposing you to labelled yourself as pakistani,,,,but muslims...and it is also for punjabies,,,,but i know pushto thats why ive experienced pushtoon people...and i found they are more national then punjabies,,,,can you tell me before qais abdul rasheed what was your langauge your relegion..???then why we proud on nationism,,,we all are from one man...then who was he pushtoon punjabi shik gujjar arab british or some thing else??we need to proud on being muslim,,,even in durrani epmire persian langauge found mostly,,nationism proud spread hate,,,for example,,,my one pushtoon friend was a bangash and he got fight with one khattak and after he wassaying,,,we dont frighten from khattaks etc,,,,same we jutts rajpoot doing ,,,basically we all are punjabi but sometimes its happen bcz of nation and caste system....islam is best way for us to soloution of all problems as i believe,,,,and when we left people like KHUSHAL KHAN KHATTAK,PUNJABI NATIONAL POET WHO SUPPORT NATIONISM,,,And how pushtoon better then other when he murder someone he abuse someone...or punjabi look im talking about both....and iam brave thats why i accept that punjabies have most bad qualties like they dont care about their women about viel,,etc,,im not taliking about all but majorty,,,main thing is we have to accept tuth not what is our nationis told us,,......{{{.answer with positivity???}}}
haahaaaaaaa,,,,you showed your level...i recommend you for your own country,,fight and make your puktoonkhwah,,,if all pushtoon are same then why they dont bring out swored like khushal khan khattak,,,,and why punjabies dont drove pukhtoons out from punjab like ranjit singh did,,,,practically do it its ok,,,but hate speeches not work and only spread nationism ,,{{{{{in my opinion ghilzais are much better then durranies }}} but not important that all ghilzais are good and all durranies are bad...
Identify a single Islamic village or even a street where they're doing good industrially, scientifically and morally ? Remember I'm just asking village as I know for sure such country currently doesn't exist ! Pakistan was conceived on a very fraudulent two nations theory which has since died in 1971 Bangladesh appearance on World map ! You don't like my Khushal Khan Khattak and I don't like your iqbal and jinnah. So we're even stevens !
I came across this page dedicated to pushtoons after reading some of the content and comments by its contributors i want to say one last thing too, that I don't get this Patriotism/Racism. It is by sheer luck(or misfortune, depending upon your views) that you were born Indian/Pakistani/Punjabi/Pashtun/Sindhi. You could have as easily be born a Brit or French. What do you feel proud of..? That random probability that you were born a Punjabi/Pashtun/Pakistani..? Or, the achievements of respective races with which you had nothing to do..? Or, the huge number of great Punjabis/Pashtuns, who, once again, had nothing to do with you..? Ask yourself this, why do you feel the need to be patriotic/racist..??
How many have died for the sake of patriotism/racism.. To protect their nation/race/tribe.. Thousands might have died to protect the Holy Roman Empire, the Ottoman Empire.. Now where are they..? They no longer even exist!! Disintegrated, absorbed into other nations.. they now exist as mere words in books.. The same might happen to Pakistan.. maybe not in the next hundred years, but maybe in the next thousand, surely in the next million..!!
Third world nations/races who have not contributed any thing worth mentioning to humanity derive their superficial "pride" by negation and hate for others and this is what it look likes "You don't like my Khushal Khan Khattak and I don't like your iqbal and jinnah. So we're even stevens !"
Iqbal said: "It seems to me that God is slowly bringing home to us the truth that Islam is neither Nationalism nor Imperialism but a League of Nations which recognizes artificial boundaries and racial distinctions for facility of reference only, and not for restricting the social horizon of its members."
@ NANGYALY AND SAAD KEANI hahaaaaaaaaa as expected....so dont like qaid azam alright,,,mee too,,,,and im also against partition ,,remember not against freedom but partition,,,,bcz british make decision not quaid azam....if we fought then ok,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,2nd if you dont like iqbal then its ur level and jealousy,,,,bcz iqbal not guided about nationism of racism,,,,but only islamic nation,,,,i think you didnt read him,,,,he also prasing pushtoons in his poetry ...i dont have problem with afghan pushtoons,,,i like ghilzais bcz mostly they have less racism then durranies and others...i like every afghan who dont have racism...and i dont like every pun jabi who have racism,,,,hope you got it........and be positive,,,,,,,and come out of raciasuim then thinkm,,,,,,,,,and im not talking about leaders of afghan and pakistan,,,they both are american slaves,,,we are also mentally cultural.....only mujhaideen are real,,,,and they are all over the world,,,,and trying... and pakistan is not a race it is only identification....like afghanistan is for farsiwaan,,,,,,,,pushtoon punjabies baloch sindi all using pakistani pasport ,,playing in one cricket team pakistan,,,,,then what is problem,,,like you and me have a name for identification...i love humanity......humanity is islam,,,,and islam is humanity..............but if you understand both,,,,thanks
@ NANGYALY.....if pakistan is fraudulent base,,,then whats about when DURRANI invaded punjab sindh and make part of afghanistan....their soilder also looted muslim of punjab as punjab is rich in food grains fruits ,,,,so what was that...its is greed and every one want to being leader for looting purpose and for power...this was happening in this world and will be....even in afghanistan ghilzais and durrani fought each other....in punjab shiks murdered pakistan bcz of partition,,,,mohajirs....base on nation ism and for dividing punjab....in 1984 shiks of india also fight with govermament ...its not hurt jinnah,,or gandi or durrani or some one else,,,,it will hurt true muslim,,,who want Sharia Law......and hut normal people,,,,who are not in parliments,,,,
Hi Brother, I am a Paharhi/Pakistani living in Islamabad and have many close friends from both pashtun and punjabi origin. I have graduated from GIK Institute(Topi-Swabi) in BS Mechanical. And there i interacted with alot of pashtuns and befriended many of them. And speaking from experience no one is on higher moral pedestal as far as punjabi-pashtun racism goes.
There are a few things i want to clarify:
1. No, Punjabis don't hate Pashtuns. Nobody can pass a sweeping statement like this when you are talking about a community of 900 million people as every human being is unique. My late grand father served in Pakistan army in SSG's and he spent alot of time in KPK(Peshawar/Mardan, My father was born in Mardan.) When ever he was happy, he used to exclaim some random pashto words and our whole family used to smile. I grew up listening to stories about his friends from Peshawar, he always used to tell me that Pashtuns are brave, honest and hospitable people. And i got the chance of experiencing it myself during my 4 years stay at GIKI/Topi. I had my own stories to tell, but he passed away(6 months before my graduation) before i could share my own experiences with him. He never hated Pashtuns. I don't hate pushtoons. My family doesn't hate Pashtun in fact i have never came across any one who hates Pashtuns.
2. We don't conider Pashtuns stupid. Simple and straight forward YES, Stupid NO. Punjabis are fun loving people. they crack jokes on Punjabis too, ever heard of Sardar jokes? who is more punjabi than Sikh/Sardars? SO you can crack jokes on Punjabis too and no body will get upset, instead we will laugh with you. Anyways I despise those punjabis who crack jokes on pashtuns. My friends send me pathan-jokes ironically some of them are Pashtuns too. But i don't forward it to anybody.
? What? What does this have to do with Islam? We're talking about humans and racism and prejudice - something too common in every society, regardless of religious beliefs and principles.
ROHIT PAWAR @ ISLAM has equality and humanity as well if you want to understand i will tell you,,,,,,,islam follwers have no in these days when we had,,,,black habshi slaves were stand with owners,,,and state empires kids was wear a old clothes at the day of EID (muslim festival) YOU will find some of peopel these days also,,,,if you ,,,,,,,thanks
definitely Pashtuns and Punjabis do not get along... especially when it comes to politics... we Pashtuns do have a lot of racist and negative comments about Punjabis, and i agree that it is wrong and it doesn't get us anywhere... but like you said in the article the minorities get the shorter end of the stick, primarily Pashtuns and balochis..... i mean the 13 year drone campaigns killing many Pakistanis and afghans (99 percent were Pashtun), was all allowed by the same people who gave these people titles... systematically getting murdered by the govt., or the same entities that they created, and now are enemies... so, should we be happy with the Punjabi elites? since i quote musharaf mardagow: America ! you can use our land, air, and sea at your disposal... where did all there nuclear go beghairat Punjabis making us take the heat
hello mind your langauge and be patience....i know mushraf did wrong,,,,but why you blame this for punjabies,,,,there are many pushtoon who serves pakistan army,,,,then why you dont say any thing about them,,,,there are many punjabies in army also who against action of musharaf but its army rule.....same like hamid karzais did,,,why they support america against taliban becuse of nationism....same did mushraf against taliban,,,and in tribal areas people gave shelter to taliban thats why they attacked on some pakistanies areas,,,like wazirstan and fata,,,,why they dont drone attack on sawabi ,nowshera pabi akora khattak mardan ,,,these all are pushtoon lands why???/ if i talk about islam then i will support afhan taliban and real mujahaideen who are anyone from world from punjab arabia afghanistan or somewhere else....but i talk about nationism ,,,,then musharaf did right and karzai did also right bcz taliban didnot follow their country rules,,,,but mushrraf did more mistake bcz he frighten from america,,,,and did it for pakistan it was his own thought and idelogy,,,,and mushrraf is not punjabi he is muhajir urdu speaking,,,,punjabi population is more than 10 cror and pushtoon in pakistan only 3 + cror,,,,thats why they are less in army but its not mean all punjabies are bad or slave,,,,search many pushtoon in pak army why they dont retired from army or leave ,,,,,our real enemy is america and we ourself,,,,is in iraq its punjabi mistake,,,,why kurdistan and iraqi fighting each other,,,,why every where muslims fighting each other,,,if you do research then you will know....in past durrani empire pushtoon soilder also looted indian muslim as well,,,,there are good and bad people in every nation,,,,so what the hell you doing proud???? adam was not pushtoon or punjabi or any thing else,,,,,this fake ideolgy made by ourself......do research pushtoon were jews we were hindus ,,,,praise Allah who mercey on every muslim to born us muslims,,,,,,in our villages old people see pushtoons as looter or same,,,,bcz of durrani empire,,,,but its not mean all durranies or pushtoon are same,,,,leaders make decision not we,,,,,
I ve lived with Both Punjabies, nd Pushtoons, Mostly Pashtoons labble non Pashtoon As Punjabi, one with dark complexion, or non pashtoo speaker, in Pakistan, Weather In Afghanistan, they labble all As farsiBAn, Pashtoons are good Natured people, they are helping kind nature people, While Punjabis Are Hypocrate people, with coward nature, If u r Non Punjabi, even u can speak Punjabi, they ill badly discriminate u, they ill not give u any space, Though Punjabies r very coward in Nature, but they ill be like lions on thier own grounds, when they ill found u single, they ill unite and treat u Badly, Punjabies Are Dall khor , because before thry were Hindus, nd Hindis r Vegetarian, On the Contrary side Punjabies also Think Every one with fair Complexion , nd Not fluent in Ordu is Pashtun, They Call Pashtuns Pathan nd they Also Think Gilgitis, Chitral, Hazaras, Nd Ozbeks Tojiks as Pathan Punjabies are very Ill mannered people, Even they Abuse eachothers in fun, Thier Females are open to talk with every man, they preach Islam but infact thier Culture is Hinduism, But they think they r Contractors of Islam, But when u find punjabi alone, he ill not fight with u, he become fear.from u, All Punjabies Hate pashtuns, They think Pashtuns are very Dirty. Pashtoons are More homo sexuall, because they live in conservative society, they cant see women openly in thier society, But Punjabies Girl dress up like Models and u can Easily see them in Bazaras, or every where, in Punjabi society Viel is outdated think Even Punjabi girls wear dress to xpose thier Bidies, thats y punjabies r not gays, they r in few number gays, Punjabies, Even Punjabies abuse in thier homes, Punjabjes r very weak in friendship. They r more Money centerd than pashtoons, Pashtoons are nationalists in nature, they do biasness in thier actions, they are Good with thier pashtoons but not with others, but Punjabies Should First become Muslim Cimpletely then they should preach Islam nd Labble them Fort of Islam. They think destroying Afghanistan is Jihad, but Destroying Punjabi Army is Kufar,
any educated and person judge,,,,thats who are you,,,,if u r real brave go and fight for you country with america,,,tell me why karzais allied with america,,,same mushraf dis,,,,and i think you are not pushtoon but afghani tajik or some thing else,,,,i dont need to give you more explanation ok,,may Allah guide you
From a foreigner's (I am an Australian muslim) point of view.... I stayed in Pakistan for 11 months with a Pashtun family. They are very nice-looking people. At the risk of stereotyping, which I was completely unaware of at the time.... I visited Rawalpindi to see some friends there... My first comment was that the people in Rawalpindi are so ugly and asked what ethnicity they are? My friends said they are Punjabi. I went to a hairdresser and was shocked to see the women dress with short sleeves and no hijab on their head, nor a dupatta. Later on I saw men Punjabis with the "shaving brush on the head" look, playing music in the streets of Islamabad. That is two jabs at Punjabis which I must apologise for. But I must point out that none of my Pashtun friends taught me anything about Punjabis before I observed what I did in Pakistan.
A foreigner's point of view.... I am a Muslim from Australia
I recently spent 11 months living with a Pashtun family. They are very nice-looking people. I learnt a little bit of their language (Pashto), as well as Urdu, and a lot about their customs.
I went to visit a friend in Rawalpindi and without knowing, I noticed that the people there are very ugly. I asked my friend why. He said they are Punjabis. It was not the colour of their skin, It's their features.
I went to a hairdresser in 'Pindi and was surprised to see they had short-sleeved shalwar kameez (showing their arms) and no hijab or dupatta. I noticed the strong "attitude" toward me, as I was wearing a traditional shalwar kameez and long hijab, and dressed like a Pashtun.
I went on to visit Islamabad and saw some Punjabi men, wearing the "shaving brush on the head" look and playing music.
That is how Punjabis look to foreigners. At the time, I knew nothing about the verbal rivalry between Punjabis and Pashtuns.
No such thing as an "Afghani Tajik" but if you mean Afghan Tajiks, that would/should refer to Tajik people of/from Afghanistan - as opposed to from, say, Tajikistan or Iran, etc.
very interesting. i am a born bred punjabi with only naturalised pakhtoons in punjab those who have have been punjabified. very interesting to know that pathan is an offensive term. i was clueless and will be watchful in future. punjabis makes jokes of racist natures that i can vouch for. ignorance comes with arrogance. hopefully we can rise above race and learn to value each other. i have alot oif admiration for pakhtoon, i wish i could experience more of your culture.
Dear friends we will not get anything with this punjabi pathan fighting. If you think that we hate each other then you are wrong ,I am Punjabi and i live in Rawalpindi i have many pakhtun friends they are very good people and yes they are brave and loyal, there are bad people in both sides but we should not take them seriously and we should try to improve our relation. Remember unity is the only way for us to success.
Dalkhur friends u people don't even know were does pakhtoon actually come from and what is their origin do u , bcs if they if all of them know , trust me Pakistan will not be eaven in half of its real size ;-)
Serious disagreement on this one points in this post. This one overhere...
ReplyDelete// For Pashtuns, any group of people in Pakistan who doesn't speak Pashto or who is not Pashtun is a Punjabi. That means that all the Baloch, the Kashimiri, the Sindhis, and actual Punjabis are all Punjabis to Pashtuns. I'm not kidding - feel free to verify with any Pashtun you know.//
I dont remember any phase of my life where I thought this way, nor did my family, not even my extended family, friends, or even my village fellows. We are very aware of the diversity around us.
I've experienced it in some diluted form in the north though, I am from Pashtunlands down south.
It usually comes together with "Punjabi-asthan" thing and could be extended to Urdu speaking community as well, cuz of that "Urdu Hegemony" thing again. Call them nationalist rants. But I strongly feel that Pashtuns are very aware of who Punjabis are, how they are not Sindis, Baluchs,Urdu speaking or even the related Seriaki, Hindko, pothohari etc.
Thanks so much for reading and commenting, Empror!
DeleteI'm surprised but happy to hear your folks don't see all non-Pashtuns or all Urdu-speakers as Punjabis! It's something that the Twitter Pukhtuns are talking about all the time, too, and it's one of the top points in the "You know you're Pukhtun when ..." trends! :) That for Pashtuns in Pakistan, there's only two groups of people: Pukhtuns and non-Pukhtuns, haha.
But good to hear your folks know better than to believe that.
I am a Potohari Punjabi and for your ignorance Potohari means a person living in Potohar. It is not some ethnicity. We have a different dialect but we call our self as Punjabis. Also Mostly Hindkos constitute Punjabi tribes like Kayanis, Awans, Maliks etc so they are closely related to Punjabis. Some dielect difference dont make you a different person. Moreover Punjabi definition is geographical and cultural so many Kashmiri migrants are also known as Punjabis right now.
DeletePunjabi distrust stems from the fact of Backstabbing of Pukhtoons in the past when they attacked Punjab in late 17th century. Also they tried to attack Punjabi mainlands when they were Turkic slaves of Lodhis and Ghaznavis. Moreover in Potohari dielect there are many sayings of the 17th century like "Jaira Labbay Aaj hi kha lawo, Kal tai Durrani ai wi lai jao" ( Whatever you have eat today otherwise Durrani Dacoits from North will took it away ) . In the 17th century onwards many Pukhtoons attacked North Punjab for looting purposes and Fort Rohtas was made by the looted money what was later captured by the local Warriors known as Ghakkars of Potohar from Pukhtoons,
Punjabis dont hate anybody but they were looted and plundered by Pukhtoons in the past and that let to stereotypes and distancing that still prevails today. Also We as Punjabis know the stereotypes of Pushtoons very well like you call us Daal Khors, Chooray and you call our Women as "Chindakhs (Female Frog in Pushto). You will never see any Punjabi making racial jokes about Pukhtoon women but you do it with our Punjabi women.
So do read the history of backstabbing and looting that why this happens in the first place and who is to blame then.
Thanks for your input, Anonymous! I appreciate your thoughts!
DeleteI understand you want to believe that Punjabis do not say negative things about Pashtun women, but that's not true, as I've clarified in the post above. I also undersatnd you want to believe that Punjabi stereotypes against Pashtuns are based in facts, but that's also not true.
Ironically enough, though, a lot of the Pashtuns here in this blog and those who commented to this post on Facebook also insist that Pashtuns don't hate Punjabis the way Punjabis hate us, that Pashtuns' stereotyping of Punjabis is based in facts!
Clearly, there's a lack of knowledge and a terrible ignorance on both parts and the solution is to spend enough time with each other with an open mind to learn about each other and respect each other. So there's no one side to blame entirely; it's both sides who are at fault equally, and both need to work towards correcting the problem.
One Pashtun "Asad Bashir Khan Khattak" married a "Chindakh"(frog woman) Veena Malik, lolz,everyone knows why?
DeleteMaster Illusions, you seem rather full of self-hate. I wish you peace! God be with you.
DeleteThat's true by the way, a Pashtun friend of mine from DIR was joking that subconsciously we pashtuns have two nation theory as well, and it goes some thing like this, Pakistan has two nations 1. pashtuns 2. Punjabis/Non-Pashtuns
DeleteIt is funny though that even people of Afghanistan hate Punjabis. My whole family has a soft corner for Afghans because of the fact that they are suffering from wars imposed upon them. But to my surprise i came across an afghan 3 years back and he was educating me about how us punjabis(including me) have destroyed Afghanistan and i was like "WOW" never realized we are that bad.
Wawo, Again such a Brilliant & reasonable topic. #love it.
ReplyDeleteYes it is very true that we mock punjabi's as sama as they do us.
Mung hagawe ta pa dheer baad naazar goro, though we call ourselves human beings and That too Peace lovers (lol), but unfortunately we hate them to bits (mind set up, since ages)
Ka mung zanta tahzeeb yaafta qaom wayo, nu mung la pakar de che we should love them, cox they too are human beings, ho zamong bad qismati daa da che mung pukhtana just da yo so Politicians da waje da tool qaom na nafrat kao, o kanzal o spak bad raad warpase wayo.
Pa de topic ke dheeere hbre de
Dheer Khukali topic de choose kRe de,
I'm going to share it.
#Loveit.
Speen.
Wawoo- Again such a Brilliant & Reasonable Topic here for us...
ReplyDeleteYou are so keen observer, trust me loving this writing.
Yes, that's very true that, punjabi's making fun of us, making different jokes, and named them as " Aik Pathan thaa" etc etc.
But it's also a bitter truth, that we Pakhtuns/Pashtuns also making fun of them, mocking them, abusing them in different ways.
I know some of my Pashtoon well educated friends(on face book) they call themselves well mannered, well educated, Peace lovers, & Humanist, but when it comes to Punjabis, "Nu Dheer Gaad Wadd Khabre Shoro Kee"
Don't know why we hate that people's that much?
Haga Insanan Na de? If they are, nu bia waly da yo so Politicians da waje mung da tool qaoom na nafrat kao??
Ka hagwe na poege, nu mung ho poego kana che
"Loyee Mazhab Insaniyaat De
Muhabbat Loyya Sajjda Da".
Dheer Ziat khukali topic de, zama ho dheer khawah sho, dheer khaista topic de.
Thank you so much Qrratugai for such a Brilliant Write.
:)
LOVE the Sail's reference! Loye mazhab insaniyat dey, muhabbat loya sajda da! (The poem sung by Fayaz Khan Khishgi is one of my favorites ever! It's so beautiful!)
DeleteThanks for your readership and insight, Spin gwala! It's such a relief to see Pashtuns acknowledging that we're also at fault in this whole stereotyping business!
I also am interested to know why the mutual hatred is there, what once up on a time initiated it. There must be a reason, right? I mean, why specifically Punjabis? (To anyone who reads this question and wants to answer it, I won't accept any biased answers - nothing like "because they hate us" or "because they're ugly" will be tolerated.)
" Loye mazhab insaniyat dey, muhabbat loya sajda da!" I think it's Ghani Khan not Sail ! Zama da tra zoye ma ta wayelo woo and I trust him !
DeleteNangyalay!
Nangyaliya, pa khairuno!
DeleteThe verse is by Sail :) It's a poem also sung by Fayaz Khan. The poem's called something like "Za pa de pa haghe na yam." Listen to it on Youtube here: Za Pa De Pa Haghe Na Yam
Such, such khaista shayari!
But, hey, if you know for sure that it's by Ghani, lemme know! I've been attributing it to Sail all this time!
I think it's Ghani Khan as zama da tra zoye ma ta dwa drey kala makhkshee wayelo woo and I trust his opinions when it involves Ghani Khan and Takkar but ta ye khamakha attributing to Sail. I would attribute it to Ghani Khan anyways even if I didn't know the poet because it's gutsy lines. References that may change your dogged opinion !
Delete" http://www.destaar.com/hujra/viewtopic.php?t=2022 "
" http://pashtopoetry.wordpress.com/category/uncategorized/page/7/ "
The references could've have been better but I reckon they'd work if I was provided. And sta da page sra sa laanjaa da maybe some glitches ?
Till now I was a silent reader of your blog but going to comment this time!!
ReplyDeletelike 'empror" I will also like to disagree on the above mentioned point because majority of the people from South have a sense of this.
The only problem people from South I mean Pashtuns (Pakhtuns) have they call each individual from north a Peshawari due to change of their accent from south ignoring the fact that only people from peshawar can be called as a Peshawari. Another misconception among the rest of pakistanis is that they call us "Baluchi' because we are from Baluchistan not realizing that we are Pashtuns and Baluchi means something different. You even can't call a Baluch a Baluchi because the two terms are different
its just like some one call u Pashtuni instead of Pashtun.
Baluchi is a language and Baluch are the followers of that language like pashtho and pashtuns.1/2
Thanks for your response, Estranger! (Note: I only received 1 of your 2 comments, not both - feel free to write the other one at your convenience.)
DeleteThanks, also, for clarifying the whole "all non-Pashtuns in Pakistan are considered Punjabi" thing - I'm happy to know that not all Pashtuns believe that! And sorry that people mis-classify you as Baloch just because you live in Balochistan. It's ignorance and a lack of interest in understanding the truth/reality on the part of those who believe this and those who don't understand why correct classifications of ethnic identity is important to so many communities around the world.
Brilliant as ever..and indeed an excellent subject to discuss to clear some of the dust around here even on FB beside outside in actual life. I have lived in Punjab for bulk of my life and can say for sure that on the personal level or even collective group level, the Punjabies don't hate us as much as we do...however, why it becomes more painful and significant for us and inducers reaction is because Punjabis stereotyping of Pashtuns is seen as institutionalized ( as you very well highlighted). I think the traditional stereotyping was not so serious and in fact tolerated on both sides with some grace, despite the fact that Punjabis attempts at ridicule probably were aimed at stigmatizing and corrupting our culture ( may not be so but the perception was pretty strong and not without a reason) . However, currently because of the events of the recent past this has taken a very serious shape. Most Pashtun today will hate Punjabies not for the fact that they are punjabies but because they see the Punjab (which most consider synonymous with Pakistan) as the oppressor that is bent upon destroying our culture, our language, our collective lives and push us into a dark age ...( You know the politics of it...). On the point highlighted by Emperor, I think he has a point. I also tend to believe that Pashtun stereotyping punjabies does not extend to the other ethnicities....though on the lowest tier of society, ppl do find it difficult to differentiate between Punjabi, Mohajirs and may be Sindhies.
ReplyDeleteRiaz Papin
Thanks for your insight, Riaz lala! Ahhh - you've sort of answered our question (mine and Speen Khan's) of what might be the root causes of this mutual hatred! For Pashtuns, it's that the Punjabis are dominating Pakistan and oppressing other ethnic groups and minorities, especially Pashtuns. I've heard this perspective before, but I remember reading responses to it that challenged the whole notion that "Punjabis" dominate Pakistan, that Punjabis rule other ethnicities and so on. I'll look more into it and write about it again later on, ka khairee.
DeleteThanks again for your response, as always!
Please visit southern Punjab and see it for yourself how people of south are living their lives. Ordinary people from punjab are suffering at the hands of Punjabi ruling elite too. Punjabis have helped two sindhis (Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto and Benazir Bhtto) to become prime ministers of Pakistan 4 times. Now many of them are idolizing Imran Khan(a pathan of punjabi origin). Musharraf a non punjabi ruled Pakistan for ten years. Yahya Khan and Ayub Khan were not Punjabis too. Only Zia Ul Haq was Punjabi ruler of Pakistan. Even Nawaz sharif is a kashmiri.
Deletelol very true. punjabi rulers, its just that ruling elite is considered as default punjabi. i had a hunzai friend who lamented the same thingh and an urdu speaking one who would constantly call musharraf punjabi. i think mainly its to do with poor distribution of resources over all pakistan and the fact punjab is wealthiest province that leads ofover simplification of matter. in all honesty an oiver hauling of whole system would get rid of these gripes
Deletewe pashtuns don't just come to national tv and mock other ethnicity. punjabis are most corrupt nation in pakistan. the leadership of terrorists are based on punjab. yet pahktuns are being labeled as terrorists. what an irony! it seems punjabis are determined to revenge on us.
ReplyDeleteThanks for your input, Anonymous! Appreciated!
DeleteI believe the post above discusses the whole "coming to national tv and mocking others" issue - and it talks also about how Pashtuns mock people in return as well but in different ways. Which way is better, which way worse isn't my concern.
This is really a nonsense Post trying to pussyfoot around the issue. Punjab controls Pakistan. PUNJabi is Pakistani. When the master stereotype and "joke " about a minority,whther Pashtun,Baluch or Sindhi it is racism and entrenched prejudice that is harmful and dangerous as they have the power of state,army and violence on their side. To equate Joking of their maters wayward ways is not equal to the power that Punjab have over other minorities. Punjab dominate media and efefctively employs stereotype and prejudice to serve their power interest. Pashtun jesting is benign as they have no state power to effectuate their threats or jokes. Please dont be disengenious and eqaute the Punjabi and Pashtun ,the one is ruler and other is ruled. This is similar to apartheid when the stereotype,racism of one was enforced through power and institution which was controlled by white man.the other was just defending themselve from falsity and evil powerplay.
ReplyDeleteThanks a whole bunch for your response, Pashtun pimpernel!
DeleteRespectfully, I disagree with your perspective, as indicated so in my above post. But I understand that in your opinion, what Pashtuns say and do to Punjabis isn't racism or bigotry or mockery; it's only mockery and bigotry and racism and all other things bad when Punjabis do it to Pashtuns. I understand this, but I disagree with it and think it's false and makes no sense. I wish we'd recognize our wrongs as well and stop blaming other people all the time even when we're at fault as well.
Salamuna...
ReplyDeleteIn first part of the comment I talked about Pashtun sense of recognition & rest of Pakistanis perception about Pashtuns living in Southlands..
Now coming to second part of the topic i.e racism among the two Pashtuns and punjabis, it has deep roots some where down in history may be from the Russian entrance in the holy land of Pashtuns or may be earlier, but lets focus on this 3 decades, oh three decades needs hell of a time to discuss it, so let me save your time by providing following links from @Pir rokhan's blog hoping Pir sb will not mind it.... http://pashtoonkhwa.blogspot.com/2013/04/the-political-thought-of-mahmud-khan.html ..
Now why i'm saying to read political thoughts of masher, that's because when ever he speaks in public or to large gatherings he talks about inequality, rights, oppressor & the oppressed, and much more so here the story of big brother starts I mean Punjab and the way he treats his younger bro's.
He is right in all his sayings no doubt in that but the followers get the message in a wrong way that is hatred for comm'on Punjabis, but it should be for the elite and ruling class. their is no doubt neither to me nor to any one else having knowledge and sense of the history of Pak that what they did to east pakistan and now with Baluchs and Pashtuns.
Pashtuns IDP'S were not allowed to enter Punjab, borders were sealed and neither to Karachi labelled you as a Talib and during his 97 regime they banned flour, wheat to kpk as they were busy stocking it in Punjab and provided you " boosa" one used for animals to use it in place of wheat.
Now let me provide you another link from the sum guy's blog, titled the Pashtun issue and you may find it useful in understanding the root cause of racism among the too.
http://pashtoonkhwa.blogspot.com/2010/03/pashtun-punjabi-debate-part-ii.html
khuri if you look at it from political and economical perspective not from social perspective than you may get your answer of racism among the too.
Te da Nar lur ya and I appreciate the way you think and write and represent Pashtuns in this intangible world with courage and honour.
I'm not disagreeing on what you have written that both are equally involved in racism, yes they are in their own way but I tried to shed some light on the root cause of it and may be I'm wrong but with discussions with intellects like you it helps me to head towards right direction.
Regards
Saeed.
qrratugai khuri I wrote down almost 2 pages for my second half of comment on racism among the too to explain the root cause of it from not not only Social perspective but from political and economical perspective too but alass! with just one wrong click i have to write it back from the scratch uh! not possible now coz i'm going to sleep now so to participate in #MamaQadeer long march 2morro if you are aware of it already reached Islamabad, but for your understanding i am leaving two links from #Pirroshan's Blog hope he will not mind it :-)
ReplyDeletehttp://pashtoonkhwa.blogspot.com/2013/04/the-political-thought-of-mahmud-khan.html
http://pashtoonkhwa.blogspot.com/2010/03/pashtun-punjabi-debate-part-ii.html
I agree with you that it's from both sides but whats the root cause behind it only possible if we look back at least 3 decades.
khudai di tal khwashala ao abad lare...
Regards
Saeed.
Bigotry in all forms should be condemned but I will also say that as a Pukhtun from Pakistan who was not anware of his ethnic identity until moving abroad at the age 15 and even then not so much. It was only after I met with some other pakistanis at university when I began to look more into my culture. The reason for this was because no matter how hard I tried I could not relate to them. Not to mention the fact they kept bringing up negative stereotypes which I was never aware of nor understood. I realized that these people didn't view me as pakistani and had severe issues of their own. These panjabis and mahajirs were/are obsessed were obsessed with things like skin colour and castes and the ridiculous concept of martial races and other shallow issues. And on my returns to Pakistan I found this to be even more true. Case in point, the anon aboves comment about Pashtuns being Lodhi and Ghaznavid slaves (Lodhis are Pashtun and Ghaznavids were basically Turks but many of the matriarchs and generals were Afghan) reeks of insecurity. He even goes as far as to fabricate the Rohtas Fort incident forgetting the Gakkars and Humayun were allies with Tareen and Tanoli forces. Its part of the reason why I can't take Indian authors seriously. Everything is about how they weren't really defeated or how their gallantry was unmatched or whatever. When you ask "well weren't like a million panjabis enslaved by the Afghans?" "No those figures are wrong and we fought back and ranjot singh". Who they love to quote glossing over that his "great" army was an alliance between the British and Shah Shuja loyalists especially his own faction of Durranis andmany Yusufzai and Khattak. And somehow the Afghans were dishonoured by their short lived and meagre gains which they themselves helped in. Its true many Pukhtuns have many bad habits but I see their mockey of panjabis as a reaction to mocking from insecure panjabis who are supposedly so noble yet they descend from Turks, Persian, Afghans, Kashmiris or Arabs. We are almost the same as Sindhis on number and put in more than our fair share with far less resources and with hostility from Tajiks, Persians, Indians and the West. Yet when our schools explode or our women are victimized, well its always like yeah that's how they are, completely forgeting the number of gang rapes condoned by their panchyats and councils on children as young as 4. Don't get me wrong there is good and bad about every thing but I haven't seen Pukhtuns with the same kind of negative perceptions of other ethnic groups as panjabis or indian mahajirs. I call out anything I see as politically incorrect or wrong but I genuinely don't feel like I can or want to relate to pakistan and as time goes on more and more Pukhtuns like the Balochis already are realizing that the distribution of resources, national language, the culture, the foreign and domestic policy of pakistan benefit lahore more than it does the entire country.
ReplyDeletethats rather sad. i am a punjabi and i liuved in pakistan till earlierbyrs of my life . but if this rift and this unequal distribution of resources is not sorted i guess it wont be before pakistan will lose another precious part. and many punjabis i kniw just jump up to defend punjab without have any information or knowledge about distribution of resources. in any case countries that donot learn to blend theiur ethinicities often fail and i hope punjabis, akhtoons, balochis, kashmairis etc can work out, respect and cherish tejiur differences.
DeleteI don't like Pashtun's boasting about themselves all the time. Most of them boast on their looks and bravery whereas both of these things they lack. Having fair skin doesn't mean that you are beautiful. Homosexuality is widely practised in Pashtun regions. So how can be a nation with such a large number of homosexuals be brave?
ReplyDeletePashtuns call Punjabis as daal khors and as a matter of fact scientifically it's proven that those who eat more meat have low iq and intelligence.That's why Punjabis are more intelligent because they have progressed in every field whereas Pashtuns have progressed in nothing except killing each other, drug smuggling and norcotics.
Thank you for your comments, Anonymous!
DeleteI agree that skin color, bravery, and other such traits (that never actually apply to the whole nation or group! Just to a few; and they're not natural or inherent but adopted).
But I don't get your point about homosexuality and how a nation with so many homosexuals can't be brave. What does homosexuality have to do with bravery?
And LOL @ the "scientifically proven" part about those who eat more meat have a low IQ. Actually, Pashtuns eat just as much meat as non-Pashtuns. Have you ever been to the Middle East? I don't know if you're from Pakistan or not, but meat-eating is an extremely popular and beloved thing among *all* group in Pakistan, including Punjabis. So that scientific point of yours is backfiring all right. But, of course, science isn't so stupid or dumb to claim something as ridiculous as that.
Even as the above post shows, Pashtuns are just as good and just as bad as any other group of people out there. You don't get to say "Pashtuns are X while People B are Y." That's just never, ever true, and that's called racism and hatred and bigotry and evil and all other things unacceptable.
Besides, Pashtuns are my people, in case I haven't made it clear around here. And I love them for whatever their flaws are <3 So you don't get to BS about *my* people.
I don't appreciate your bigotry, and I do not welcome it. If you have similar such evil to spew on my blog, your comments will be deleted.
But thanks for dropping by!
Also Pashtuns ghairat is a self made sense of grandeur. I don't agree with the statement in the above article about the proposal/marriage of a Pashtun with Punjabi "Your parents will go, "WHAT!! No way in HELL are we ever going to stoop to the level of marrying our daughter to a Punjabi! No!"
DeleteDoes it really bring shame to Pashtun family to marry a Punjabi? Had that been a case then a Pashtun guy would have preferred death over marrying a woman like Veena Malik who was not only a Punjabi but also had very bad reputation. But just because of her wealth and fame her married her.
Pashtun's won't mind reputation when the matter is related to money. They can even marry a woman of their mother's age for money. Sorry to say but that's the reality.
Meat eaters have low IQ and it is scientifically proven. Human beings by physical constitution are apes and all apes are vegetarians and not meat eaters. If you think that by eating meat will increase your IQ then you are totally wrong.
DeleteI think you should not delete other people's comments based on hate Let everyone read them because that way you are showing them the mirror to look at their real face.
DeleteHomosexuality has lot to do with bravery in my view. I think homosexuals are only brave on women and not on men if it is regarding physical strength although mentally homosexuals are sharper than hetrosexuals.But gay women have more physical strength than straight women on the other side.
Here we are talking about Pashtuns being gays. That is a truth that Pashtuns are mostly gays. It's because of their strict tribal code of Pashtunwali which is based on complete segregation of women from men.Hence men find love interest in their own gender.Pashtunwali is a barbaric, sub-human, pre-historic tribal code among Pashtuns and is inculcated in the mind of every Pashtun no matter how much educated he becomes in his life. Still at the back of his mind this tribal code of Pashtunwali is running. So this tribal code of Pashtunwali is running in the head of every Pashtun.This tribal code is based on sense of grandeur, superiority,self-praise and fake sense of vanity and treating women as sub humans.
I think once Pashtuns will come out of this "Pashtunwali" then not only they will come out of their homosexuality but will also progress in other fields of life. Then instead of hatred against Punjabis they will defeat them with their intelligence and creativity.
Master Illusions, great advice on keeping the comments of people full of hate - I decided to keep yours (but these are the only bigoted comments of yours I'm going to let publish). My blog is a space of love, unity, power, acceptance, tolerance, and there's absolutely no room here, alhamdulillah, for any form of hate.
DeleteLOL @ your claim that "Pashtuns are mostly gay" - they're not mostly gay, but if they were, there'd be nothing wrong with that because there's nothing wrong with being gay. My sincerest condolences to you for thinking homosexuality is wrong.
As for your claims against Pashtun and gender segregation: Would you know, westerners have the same idea about ALL Muslims doing that because guess what :) Gender segregation has roots in Islam; Pashtuns simply happen to be following Islam, according to them. Don't ever fool yourself into thinking Punjabis and other Muslim ethnic groups are immune to gender segregation or other strict versions of Islam that you prefer to believe are problems only among Pashtuns.
And thanks for your suggestion, but we Pashtuns are quite happy with Pashtunwali :) We're keeping it, and the last person we're going to listen to is a human full of anger and bitterness for reasons we are not even interested in investigating. We can only wish you peace because you certainly need it.
Best wishes to you!
~ a fellow Pashtun girl
Dear Fellow Pashtun girl it's good for you to keep your Pashtunwali and good for you to keep posting articles like above which actually promote hatred and show a very deep insight to your personality..
Deletehehe... spotted another punjabi bigot and racist...
DeleteThis comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Delete@Master illusions
DeleteI have read your comments about "Pukhtoons being Gay". After reading the article and comments of the fellow readers I must appreciate the fact that mostly pukhtoon readers (not all) appreciated the good work of the author and shared the same views that measures must be taken to live like a nation and give mutual respect to every one living in Pakistan. Now coming towards the "Gay" stereotype created by punjab I will refer you to these findings. Reference : Capital Talk Geo News
Top ten cities of Pakistan in child sexual abuse:
1. Rawalpindi 2. Lahore 3. Quetta. 4. Aokara 5. khair pur 6. Faisal Abad 7. Pakpathan 8. Kasour 9. Sailkot 10. Shekhopura
Can you please elaborate why there is so much sexual frustration despite the fact that there is no segregation of opposite sex in Punjab. For KPK you blamed it on "Pukhtoon wali". How would you explain that for Punjab?
Secondly I will also suggest you to keep out of your shell and explore different cultures and visit at least KPK, it may help you in overcoming your ignorance.
I will also take this opportunity to please give a proper scientific reference about your claims that meat is the cause of low IQ.
Dear Aleena,
ReplyDeleteThank you for dropping by and participating this conversation. Unfortunately, your comments were too offensive and I had to delete them without even publishing them. I trust you'll be more careful in your language in the future. I do not tolerate any kind of racism and other prejudice on my blog, whether it comes from Pashtuns against Punjabis (as was yours) or vice versa - or from others to others.
This is very interesting. I am an ethnic Kashmiri from the disputed Kashmir Valley (we are only about 6 million and speak our own language "Koshur" which is a language isolate completely different from the Punjabi dialiect spoken in Azad Kashmir). Ethnic Kashmiris also colloquially describe all people south of the Kashmir Valley as "Punjaeb" (ie Punjabi). Many of us also, unfortunately, call all people south of us "Daal Khor" and see ourselves as kings of meat eaters (we have 34 courses of meat served at our weddings - to be shared in a giant tray between 4!). Elders tell me that when ethnic Kashmiris had to go to Punjab (Lahore) (before Pakistan was created) to find work, locals used to derogatively call us "Haatho" - meaning people who work with their hands - since in those days we did labouring and we hated that term. Its nothing as vicious as the Pashtun-Punjabi thing you have described though! It is more just neighbourly rivalry.
ReplyDeleteHey I loved your post and found it very informative. I'm from that part of the world too and honestly no longer identify with any of the ethnicities or sub-ethnicities because its so stupid, confusing and racist. I'm proud of what Muslims (and non-Muslims) have accomplished in south Asia but isn't it about time we all became universalists and loved each other all the same. Racism is for stupid people.
ReplyDeleteI have seen people associate white skin to people but at the same time I have seen plenty ugly and darker tone pathans.. even some of the white ones don’t look good.. Moreover the other ethnicites in Pakistan have people with white skins, but the pathans label them as monkeys, to that end I have just one thing to say, monkeys still have a higher IQ than donkeys with white color ! A monkey rides the donkey not the other way round. To sum up pathan/taliban culture see this bacha bazi video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ag5fl2S4juQ
ReplyDeleteHello, Anonnie!
DeleteThank you for dropping by.
What's wrong with "darker tone" people, though? What a tragedy that you've to turn to people's looks and comment on whether they're ugly or beautiful to make a point.
I pray to God to bring peace and happiness in your life so you don't have to resort to comments like the above to make yourself heard, aameen. God be with you and all of us!
Enough internet for today! Anonymous, the fact that you had to resort to such derogatory comments says it all about you. The author criticized BOTH Pakhtuns and Punjabis for having stereotypes about each other-- not just Punjabis. People like you are a clear example of how we-- Pakhtuns and Punjabis-- think of each other. Spread love, brother, not hatred. May peace be with you!
DeleteExcellent piece, Orabala! More strength and courage to you!
Da Allah pa amaan!
Ohhh, look - I asked God for peace to come Anonymous's way, and everyone got it! Thaaaank you! :)
DeleteSo where are your guts honey, post my comments and the link I shared about your perverted pathan brethern wanting to fuck little kids... "dare to opine" ..why dont you dare to post my comments.. and the video link..
ReplyDeleteAwww, you're still here and still angry? Poor thing! There, there - God bring you positivity!
Deletetrue ,,,,but pushtoons are always feeling that every body is there enemy except pushtoon......they have lot of nationism,,,,,,thats why punjabies hated them,,,,in punjab they are good average,,,,,i lived in peshawar from childhood as im son of an army officer,,,,,basically im from islamabad..but in their own land they behaving wrost with punjabies in evry way,,,,,,e.g......in classroom or in sports etc......im not talking about all but majorty....one thing some pushtoons are too much good,,,,very less,,,,,and punjabies are average people,,,,in every where they are not too good bad average,,,,even my best friend is pushtoon,,,,but one thing that pushtoon have loyal to other pukhtoon even when he is wrong....thats i hate much,,,,,,,,i understand pushto ,,,,and i know pushtoons from inside,,,,sometime when they think i not know pushto and he pass comments about me in pushto,,,,which huts.....every nation has some bad habbits ...and this habbit is in pushtoon,,,,am i right pushtoons??????????????????? say true or dont say
ReplyDeleteI don't think there's anything wrong being " Proud and Nationalist ". I'm a Proud Pashtun Nationalist and that's because our Pashtuns have suffered a lot and I feel it. Being Pashtun Nationalist doesn't mean I despise other ethnicity but rather love mine Pashtuns better than others. We don't need to be labeled so called patriotic pakistani as I don't reckon we crave for it. It's better to brag about yourselves rather than riddling others with smutty & nasty words. From the thread yet again we're stereotyped as gays and nation with low IQ because of we eat meat ! Hahaha ! I wouldn't recommend any Pashtun to marry other ethnicity in pakistan even if their life depended on it. Qrratugai for you .... I reckon you're another admirer of something we call it maashertee aloom ( mutalaa pakistan ) but it's not your fault to flaunt as you've got a lot folks too who somehow consider themselves patriotic pakistani in the name of love, peace and so on. And you've got right of being entitled to your opinion. Da Pashtano mrasta bekhee muhemma da ghareeban ghark sho da mazhab ao da ghairat pa nama ! Long Live Pakhtunkhwa !!!
ReplyDeletePashtuns should strive their ways not to be used as tools for other interests in the name of pakistani patriotism and religion !
tribes and nations are for identifications according to quran saying,,,,,,and how can you support any one when he is wrong bcz he is your fellow pushtoon....this is th thing i was trying to say..please read the last adress of prophet muhammad saww,and,,iam also not imposing you to labelled yourself as pakistani,,,,but muslims...and it is also for punjabies,,,,but i know pushto thats why ive experienced pushtoon people...and i found they are more national then punjabies,,,,can you tell me before qais abdul rasheed what was your langauge your relegion..???then why we proud on nationism,,,we all are from one man...then who was he pushtoon punjabi shik gujjar arab british or some thing else??we need to proud on being muslim,,,even in durrani epmire persian langauge found mostly,,nationism proud spread hate,,,for example,,,my one pushtoon friend was a bangash and he got fight with one khattak and after he wassaying,,,we dont frighten from khattaks etc,,,,same we jutts rajpoot doing ,,,basically we all are punjabi but sometimes its happen bcz of nation and caste system....islam is best way for us to soloution of all problems as i believe,,,,and when we left people like KHUSHAL KHAN KHATTAK,PUNJABI NATIONAL POET WHO SUPPORT NATIONISM,,,And how pushtoon better then other when he murder someone he abuse someone...or punjabi look im talking about both....and iam brave thats why i accept that punjabies have most bad qualties like they dont care about their women about viel,,etc,,im not taliking about all but majorty,,,main thing is we have to accept tuth not what is our nationis told us,,......{{{.answer with positivity???}}}
Deletehaahaaaaaaa,,,,you showed your level...i recommend you for your own country,,fight and make your puktoonkhwah,,,if all pushtoon are same then why they dont bring out swored like khushal khan khattak,,,,and why punjabies dont drove pukhtoons out from punjab like ranjit singh did,,,,practically do it its ok,,,but hate speeches not work and only spread nationism ,,{{{{{in my opinion ghilzais are much better then durranies }}} but not important that all ghilzais are good and all durranies are bad...
DeleteIdentify a single Islamic village or even a street where they're doing good industrially, scientifically and morally ? Remember I'm just asking village as I know for sure such country currently doesn't exist ! Pakistan was conceived on a very fraudulent two nations theory which has since died in 1971 Bangladesh appearance on World map ! You don't like my Khushal Khan Khattak and I don't like your iqbal and jinnah. So we're even stevens !
Delete
DeleteI came across this page dedicated to pushtoons after reading some of the content and comments by its contributors i want to say one last thing too, that I don't get this Patriotism/Racism. It is by sheer luck(or misfortune, depending upon your views) that you were born Indian/Pakistani/Punjabi/Pashtun/Sindhi. You could have as easily be born a Brit or French.
What do you feel proud of..? That random probability that you were born a Punjabi/Pashtun/Pakistani..? Or, the achievements of respective races with which you had nothing to do..?
Or, the huge number of great Punjabis/Pashtuns, who, once again, had nothing to do with you..?
Ask yourself this, why do you feel the need to be patriotic/racist..??
How many have died for the sake of patriotism/racism.. To protect their nation/race/tribe..
Thousands might have died to protect the Holy Roman Empire, the Ottoman Empire.. Now where are they..? They no longer even exist!! Disintegrated, absorbed into other nations.. they now exist as mere words in books..
The same might happen to Pakistan.. maybe not in the next hundred years, but maybe in the next thousand, surely in the next million..!!
Third world nations/races who have not contributed any thing worth mentioning to humanity derive their superficial "pride" by negation and hate for others and this is what it look likes "You don't like my Khushal Khan Khattak and I don't like your iqbal and jinnah. So we're even stevens !"
Iqbal said: "It seems to me that God is slowly bringing home to us the truth that Islam is neither Nationalism nor Imperialism but a League of Nations which recognizes artificial boundaries and racial distinctions for facility of reference only, and not for restricting the social horizon of its members."
Khudai paman.
@ NANGYALY AND SAAD KEANI hahaaaaaaaaa as expected....so dont like qaid azam alright,,,mee too,,,,and im also against partition ,,remember not against freedom but partition,,,,bcz british make decision not quaid azam....if we fought then ok,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,2nd if you dont like iqbal then its ur level and jealousy,,,,bcz iqbal not guided about nationism of racism,,,,but only islamic nation,,,,i think you didnt read him,,,,he also prasing pushtoons in his poetry ...i dont have problem with afghan pushtoons,,,i like ghilzais bcz mostly they have less racism then durranies and others...i like every afghan who dont have racism...and i dont like every pun jabi who have racism,,,,hope you got it........and be positive,,,,,,,and come out of raciasuim then thinkm,,,,,,,,,and im not talking about leaders of afghan and pakistan,,,they both are american slaves,,,we are also mentally cultural.....only mujhaideen are real,,,,and they are all over the world,,,,and trying... and pakistan is not a race it is only identification....like afghanistan is for farsiwaan,,,,,,,,pushtoon punjabies baloch sindi all using pakistani pasport ,,playing in one cricket team pakistan,,,,,then what is problem,,,like you and me have a name for identification...i love humanity......humanity is islam,,,,and islam is humanity..............but if you understand both,,,,thanks
Delete@ NANGYALY.....if pakistan is fraudulent base,,,then whats about when DURRANI invaded punjab sindh and make part of afghanistan....their soilder also looted muslim of punjab as punjab is rich in food grains fruits ,,,,so what was that...its is greed and every one want to being leader for looting purpose and for power...this was happening in this world and will be....even in afghanistan ghilzais and durrani fought each other....in punjab shiks murdered pakistan bcz of partition,,,,mohajirs....base on nation ism and for dividing punjab....in 1984 shiks of india also fight with govermament ...its not hurt jinnah,,or gandi or durrani or some one else,,,,it will hurt true muslim,,,who want Sharia Law......and hut normal people,,,,who are not in parliments,,,,
DeleteHi Brother, I am a Paharhi/Pakistani living in Islamabad and have many close friends from both pashtun and punjabi origin. I have graduated from GIK Institute(Topi-Swabi) in BS Mechanical. And there i interacted with alot of pashtuns and befriended many of them. And speaking from experience no one is on higher moral pedestal as far as punjabi-pashtun racism goes.
ReplyDeleteThere are a few things i want to clarify:
1. No, Punjabis don't hate Pashtuns. Nobody can pass a sweeping statement like this when you are talking about a community of 900 million people as every human being is unique. My late grand father served in Pakistan army in SSG's and he spent alot of time in KPK(Peshawar/Mardan, My father was born in Mardan.) When ever he was happy, he used to exclaim some random pashto words and our whole family used to smile. I grew up listening to stories about his friends from Peshawar, he always used to tell me that Pashtuns are brave, honest and hospitable people. And i got the chance of experiencing it myself during my 4 years stay at GIKI/Topi. I had my own stories to tell, but he passed away(6 months before my graduation) before i could share my own experiences with him. He never hated Pashtuns. I don't hate pushtoons. My family doesn't hate Pashtun in fact i have never came across any one who hates Pashtuns.
2. We don't conider Pashtuns stupid. Simple and straight forward YES, Stupid NO. Punjabis are fun loving people. they crack jokes on Punjabis too, ever heard of Sardar jokes? who is more punjabi than Sikh/Sardars? SO you can crack jokes on Punjabis too and no body will get upset, instead we will laugh with you.
Anyways I despise those punjabis who crack jokes on pashtuns. My friends send me pathan-jokes ironically some of them are Pashtuns too. But i don't forward it to anybody.
It means in Islam there is no equality?
ReplyDelete? What? What does this have to do with Islam? We're talking about humans and racism and prejudice - something too common in every society, regardless of religious beliefs and principles.
DeleteROHIT PAWAR @ ISLAM has equality and humanity as well if you want to understand i will tell you,,,,,,,islam follwers have no in these days when we had,,,,black habshi slaves were stand with owners,,,and state empires kids was wear a old clothes at the day of EID (muslim festival) YOU will find some of peopel these days also,,,,if you ,,,,,,,thanks
Deletedefinitely Pashtuns and Punjabis do not get along... especially when it comes to politics... we Pashtuns do have a lot of racist and negative comments about Punjabis, and i agree that it is wrong and it doesn't get us anywhere... but like you said in the article the minorities get the shorter end of the stick, primarily Pashtuns and balochis..... i mean the 13 year drone campaigns killing many Pakistanis and afghans (99 percent were Pashtun), was all allowed by the same people who gave these people titles... systematically getting murdered by the govt., or the same entities that they created, and now are enemies... so, should we be happy with the Punjabi elites?
ReplyDeletesince i quote musharaf mardagow: America ! you can use our land, air, and sea at your disposal... where did all there nuclear go beghairat Punjabis making us take the heat
hello mind your langauge and be patience....i know mushraf did wrong,,,,but why you blame this for punjabies,,,,there are many pushtoon who serves pakistan army,,,,then why you dont say any thing about them,,,,there are many punjabies in army also who against action of musharaf but its army rule.....same like hamid karzais did,,,why they support america against taliban becuse of nationism....same did mushraf against taliban,,,and in tribal areas people gave shelter to taliban thats why they attacked on some pakistanies areas,,,like wazirstan and fata,,,,why they dont drone attack on sawabi ,nowshera pabi akora khattak mardan ,,,these all are pushtoon lands why???/ if i talk about islam then i will support afhan taliban and real mujahaideen who are anyone from world from punjab arabia afghanistan or somewhere else....but i talk about nationism ,,,,then musharaf did right and karzai did also right bcz taliban didnot follow their country rules,,,,but mushrraf did more mistake bcz he frighten from america,,,,and did it for pakistan it was his own thought and idelogy,,,,and mushrraf is not punjabi he is muhajir urdu speaking,,,,punjabi population is more than 10 cror and pushtoon in pakistan only 3 + cror,,,,thats why they are less in army but its not mean all punjabies are bad or slave,,,,search many pushtoon in pak army why they dont retired from army or leave ,,,,,our real enemy is america and we ourself,,,,is in iraq its punjabi mistake,,,,why kurdistan and iraqi fighting each other,,,,why every where muslims fighting each other,,,if you do research then you will know....in past durrani empire pushtoon soilder also looted indian muslim as well,,,,there are good and bad people in every nation,,,,so what the hell you doing proud???? adam was not pushtoon or punjabi or any thing else,,,,,this fake ideolgy made by ourself......do research pushtoon were jews we were hindus ,,,,praise Allah who mercey on every muslim to born us muslims,,,,,,in our villages old people see pushtoons as looter or same,,,,bcz of durrani empire,,,,but its not mean all durranies or pushtoon are same,,,,leaders make decision not we,,,,,
DeleteI think I made my point... you are just putting wool over your own eyes
DeleteNow, u ill segregate good and bad talibans, how funny ur seggregation is,
DeleteI ve lived with Both Punjabies, nd Pushtoons,
ReplyDeleteMostly Pashtoons labble non Pashtoon As Punjabi, one with dark complexion, or non pashtoo speaker, in Pakistan, Weather In Afghanistan, they labble all As farsiBAn,
Pashtoons are good Natured people, they are helping kind nature people, While Punjabis Are Hypocrate people, with coward nature,
If u r Non Punjabi, even u can speak Punjabi, they ill badly discriminate u, they ill not give u any space,
Though Punjabies r very coward in Nature, but they ill be like lions on thier own grounds, when they ill found u single, they ill unite and treat u Badly,
Punjabies Are Dall khor , because before thry were Hindus, nd Hindis r Vegetarian,
On the Contrary side Punjabies also Think Every one with fair Complexion , nd Not fluent in Ordu is Pashtun, They Call Pashtuns Pathan nd they Also Think Gilgitis, Chitral, Hazaras, Nd Ozbeks Tojiks as Pathan
Punjabies are very Ill mannered people, Even they Abuse eachothers in fun,
Thier Females are open to talk with every man, they preach Islam but infact thier Culture is Hinduism, But they think they r Contractors of Islam,
But when u find punjabi alone, he ill not fight with u, he become fear.from u,
All Punjabies Hate pashtuns, They think Pashtuns are very Dirty. Pashtoons are More homo sexuall, because they live in conservative society, they cant see women openly in thier society,
But Punjabies Girl dress up like Models and u can Easily see them in Bazaras, or every where, in Punjabi society Viel is outdated think
Even Punjabi girls wear dress to xpose thier Bidies, thats y punjabies r not gays, they r in few number gays,
Punjabies, Even Punjabies abuse in thier homes, Punjabjes r very weak in friendship. They r more Money centerd than pashtoons,
Pashtoons are nationalists in nature, they do biasness in thier actions, they are Good with thier pashtoons but not with others, but Punjabies Should First become Muslim Cimpletely then they should preach Islam nd Labble them Fort of Islam.
They think destroying Afghanistan is Jihad, but Destroying Punjabi Army is Kufar,
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ReplyDeleteany educated and person judge,,,,thats who are you,,,,if u r real brave go and fight for you country with america,,,tell me why karzais allied with america,,,same mushraf dis,,,,and i think you are not pushtoon but afghani tajik or some thing else,,,,i dont need to give you more explanation ok,,may Allah guide you
ReplyDeleteFrom a foreigner's (I am an Australian muslim) point of view....
ReplyDeleteI stayed in Pakistan for 11 months with a Pashtun family. They are very nice-looking people.
At the risk of stereotyping, which I was completely unaware of at the time.... I visited Rawalpindi to see some friends there... My first comment was that the people in Rawalpindi are so ugly and asked what ethnicity they are? My friends said they are Punjabi. I went to a hairdresser and was shocked to see the women dress with short sleeves and no hijab on their head, nor a dupatta. Later on I saw men Punjabis with the "shaving brush on the head" look, playing music in the streets of Islamabad. That is two jabs at Punjabis which I must apologise for. But I must point out that none of my Pashtun friends taught me anything about Punjabis before I observed what I did in Pakistan.
A foreigner's point of view.... I am a Muslim from Australia
ReplyDeleteI recently spent 11 months living with a Pashtun family. They are very nice-looking people. I learnt a little bit of their language (Pashto), as well as Urdu, and a lot about their customs.
I went to visit a friend in Rawalpindi and without knowing, I noticed that the people there are very ugly. I asked my friend why. He said they are Punjabis. It was not the colour of their skin, It's their features.
I went to a hairdresser in 'Pindi and was surprised to see they had short-sleeved shalwar kameez (showing their arms) and no hijab or dupatta. I noticed the strong "attitude" toward me, as I was wearing a traditional shalwar kameez and long hijab, and dressed like a Pashtun.
I went on to visit Islamabad and saw some Punjabi men, wearing the "shaving brush on the head" look and playing music.
That is how Punjabis look to foreigners. At the time, I knew nothing about the verbal rivalry between Punjabis and Pashtuns.
I apologise for my comments now.
What is "Afghani Tajik"?
ReplyDeleteNo such thing as an "Afghani Tajik" but if you mean Afghan Tajiks, that would/should refer to Tajik people of/from Afghanistan - as opposed to from, say, Tajikistan or Iran, etc.
Deletevery interesting. i am a born bred punjabi with only naturalised pakhtoons in punjab those who have have been punjabified. very interesting to know that pathan is an offensive term. i was clueless and will be watchful in future. punjabis makes jokes of racist natures that i can vouch for. ignorance comes with arrogance. hopefully we can rise above race and learn to value each other. i have alot oif admiration for pakhtoon, i wish i could experience more of your culture.
ReplyDeleteDear friends we will not get anything with this punjabi pathan fighting. If you think that we hate each other then you are wrong ,I am Punjabi and i live in Rawalpindi i have many pakhtun friends they are very good people and yes they are brave and loyal, there are bad people in both sides but we should not take them seriously and we should try to improve our relation. Remember unity is the only way for us to success.
ReplyDeleteDalkhur friends u people don't even know were does pakhtoon actually come from and what is their origin do u , bcs if they if all of them know , trust me Pakistan will not be eaven in half of its real size ;-)
ReplyDelete