Saturday, March 26, 2011

On Anti-Pakistan Pashtuns and Pashtun Nationalism

So, I'm getting sick of the whole hatred towards Pakistan, perpetrated primarily by Pashtun nationalists -- not by all but by those who can't figure out what their real purpose for being nationalists is or whose priorities are misplaced. Many with no respect for themselves and other humans (and especially with no respect for other Pashtuns, who love Pakistan) even refer to it as "Porkistan" or "Fuckistan." Really, could one get any cheaper than this? It's often so intense and gets so bitter that it makes me wanna raise a Pakistani flag and yell, "Pakistan Zindabad" (Long live Pakistan), just because there are millions of humans (INCLUDING a majority of the Pashtuns of Pakistan) out there who love Pakistan, who need a country to call their own, to whom Pakistan is more important than their own souls. And they, just like all others claiming to bring justice in their world, are fighting as hard as they can to create a more just Pakistan.

That's not to deny all the crimes that Pakistan has committed -- against the Pashtuns, the Balochis, (the Sindhis?,) the Bengalis, the Kashmiris, and God knows who else. But which country hasn't done the same to its own peoples? And what about all the crimes that the U.S. and Great Britain have committed (not necessarily against the Pashtuns, of course, but many, many other peoples-- including the Pashtuns)? Yet we don't see these Pashtuns hating America or Britain close to as much as they hate Pakistan. Sure, it might be because Pakistan's created hell for the Pashtuns directly and personally, so these Pashtuns feel the effects of Pakistan's crimes far more than they ever would America's or Britain's. But interestingly, many of these Pakistan-haters claim to be humanitarian. What kind of a humanitarian ignores the sentiments of another (an innocent!) human being? The average Pakistani's not the one responsible for what Pakistan does; it's the officials, the leader, the army. And what reason do I have to hate a country for what its leaders are doing? Think of Libya, for instance: Do the Libyans hate Libya for what their leader is doing to them? No. They are trying to get justice by removing him from power. They don't retaliate against their country; they retaliate against their leader.

But! While I say here that the army, in general, has done a lot of bad for Pashtuns, those IN Pakistan, particularly in Swat, actually love the army and support it fully. They are grateful to the Pakistani army for having liberated them from the horrors of  Talibanization during the last few years. I have yet to meet a Swati Pashtun in Pakistan who hates Pakistan or doesn't support it. I've met very, very few Pashtuns of other Pashtun areas who hate Pakistan, and almost all of them happen to be living abroad or are "living" (yes, I really mean living!) in the Internet. I'm terribly sorry for the Pashtuns who love Pakistan and come online to these Pashtun forums and are severely criticized, if not attacked, for holding the views they do, for loving Pakistan, for calling themselves "Pakistani Pashtuns." It's always an unpleasant sight and makes me cringe. One could argue that those living abroad have more access to anti-Pakistan, pro-Pakistan, and impartial sources on Pakistan's history, and, therefore, they are able to make up their own minds whereas, like they claim, the "poor, brainwashed" Pashtuns in Pakistan are deprived of the right to be taught the "truth" about Pakistan, so they looove Pakistan. But I never supported the idea that the only reason people would support something is their lack of "authentic" or "correct" knowledge, or their ignorance of a certain matter.

If these Pakistan-bashing Pashtuns think that this is Pashtun nationalism, then screw it. But fortunately, there's nothing in Pashtun nationalism or nationalism in general that supports or promotes hatred or animosity towards other ethnic/national/religious/tribal groups; I'm a Pashtun nationalist only in that I support the idea of the Pashtuns of Pakistan and Afghanistan uniting under one flag, in that I want for Pashto (instead of Urdu (on the Pakistan side) and Dari/Persian (on Afghanistan side)) to be spoken, taught, promoted among Pashtuns. But it's not like Pashtuns' independence from Pakistan would ever unite them or help them in loving and respecting the Pashtuns of Afghanistan, or accepting each other as EQUALS of one another, so I know it'd be a futile attempt. But either way, I hope that at least my great-great-grandkids will witness their independence from Pakistan, just because I don't think any group should be subjugated by another one. That, of course, ONLY if the majority of the Pashtuns of that time want the independence. Currently, it's not a majority, so I don't support it. We can't fight for "Pashtuns'" independence from Pakistan when very few of them want it for themselves. And, again, no, I refuse to accept the flawed argument that "Look, the only reason they don't want it is that they don't know what's best for them, they don't know what Pakistan is doing to them," etc., etc. Go fool someone else.

You see, Pakistan's existence is a reality, whether we like it or not. There are many Pakistanis, both Pashtun or non-Pashtun,  who are fighting so hard, with so much passion, so much sincerity, so much dedication to enhance Pakistan's image, to ensure that justice is brought in Pakistan, calling for peace and a proper implementation of law. People need a place to call their nation, their country, their history, their pride. The fact that Pakistan is "hardly" 60 years old means nothing to me. Really. At least Pakistanis can claim to have a country, whereas some of us Pashtuns (including me, yes) are only longing and hoping for and dreaming of our own country (or our people's rejoining Afghanistan); I know, I know - some might be like, "Um, excuse me, but Afghanistan is our homeland." Yeah, well go say that to the Pashtuns in Pakistan who consider Pakistan their true homeland.

Now, I acknowledge Pakistan's illegitimate ownership/dominance of the Pashtun regions of Pakistan, since the Durand Line, now the boundary between Afghanistan and Pakistan, was a 100-year contract that was to end in 1993 but didn't (more on this another time, for those who're not familiar with it; for now, feel free to click here for some info and, for the actual document, click here), meaning those areas were to rejoin Afghanistan once the contract was over, but that didn't happen. But that is in no way to suggest that I'm going to curse Pakistan or hope for its demoralization or wish for it to be wiped off the map of the world. If that happens, so be it; but I'm not gonna make ANY effort, verbal or otherwise, for that to happen. In gaining your own rights, no one -- and I mean, NO one, not even Pashtuns -- should deny others' their rights, be they the Punjabis, our assumed gods. If we're gonna infringe on the rights of others, then may we never be successful in getting our own. Aameen.

I officially no longer have any respect left for anyone who calls Pakistan "Fuckistan" or "Porkistan" no matter how "highly" educated she/he might be, no matter what a staunch well-wisher of Pashtuns she/he is, no matter how much she/he claims to be a humanitarian or a socialist or a nationalist. May we never be successful in our efforts to humiliate others solely to better our own image or satisfy our own urges. Why? Because if we want to "educate" the poor misguided and unenlightened Pashtuns who love Pakistan, there's a proper way to do so, or to at least to get them to support your propaganda against Pakistan-- and that way is certainly not to ridicule the country they consider their own!

My point? (Most) Pashtun nationalists take the wrong approach in making their point: They bash the country that the people they claim to be fighting/seeking independence for, the Pashtuns, love to death. This only makes Pashtu...ns hate them and repel them as much as possible, and as long as they don't have the support of the majority of the Pashtuns, they will not succeed in gaining their independence from Pakistan. Most important to me, though, is the fact that insulting Pakistan by naming it Porkistan, etc. will not get us anywhere and only misrepresents Pashtun nationalism as a whole. Now, me, I do not support its atrocities against any group of people, and I don't like consider myself "Pakistani" -- but I do count myself as one when I remember that the strong majority of my people, especially Swatis, love Pakistan and claim Pakistani as their second identity (the first being Muslim). Unfortunately, though, it seems that Pashtuns today are given only two choices: If you consider yourself a Pakistani, it means you support Pakistan's crimes against the Pashtuns! If you don't support it, then you are absolutely prohibited from calling yourself a Pakistani!

What needs to be understood is that my rejecting a Pakistani identity or my not loving the country to bits doesn't mean I hate it or curse it or deny its existence or wish evil upon it. I don't wish evil upon any people and any country. In Pakistan's case, wishing evil against it will mean wishing evil on the millions of Pashtun who love the country. That defeats my purpose of being a Pashtana. I want the best for Pashtuns, yes, of course I do--but I don't want any less for non-Pashtuns, be they Punjabis, and I certainly don't want Pakistan to be washed down the drains of history, any more or less than I wouldn't want our imaginary "Pashtunistan" or our beloved Afghanistan to be washed down the same drains. I believe in justice, yes, I do, but I believe in justice for all.

88 comments:

  1. This makes sense. I agree with you.
    Pakistan might have committed atrocities against many races and I suppose you blame Punjabis for everything. I am sure you have not even seen the real Punjab or how much Punjab has been affected by the corrupt Pakistani government.
    If you want to curse or blame, blame Pakistani government and mind you, Pakistani government is not Punjab government.
    Benazir was a prime minister a few times, she is from Sindh.
    Ayub Khan (Pakhtun)
    Yahya Khan (Pakhtun)
    Zulifqar Ali (Sindhi)
    Zia (Was born in British India)

    And fyi, in Punjab there are many groups of people that are technically in Punjab, but are not Punjabis. I.E Sariaki people from Multan area.
    Only you "non resident" Pakistanis have issues with Pakistan and spend so much of your energy against Pakistan.
    People that live in Pakistan, rich or poor, LOVE PAKISTAN.
    Ever heard the term, unity is strength.
    The province is renamed to khyber Pakhtunkhwa and that resulted in violence from north Pakistan all the way to Karachi. My Pakhtun brothers, the REAL Pakhtuns LOVE Pakistan and the biggest proof is the huge number of Pakhtuns that serve the army along with Punjabis, Sindhis and Baluchis.
    i doubt it if you even lived in Pakistan and are basing your hatred on stories told or rather made up by your professors or something.
    I am not a Pakhtun or a Sindhi or Baluchi or Panjabi, I am a muslim who was born in Pakistan and is identified as being a Pakistani.
    I like the fact that you DO ACTUALLY listen to what your people have to.
    Go to Swat and then talk for your people and become a politician. You will be successful.
    Bless you.

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  2. You've touched on something I can go on about for hours! I've never appreciated name-calling either, and it's become worse over recent times. I'm yet to see a decent conversation between Pashtuns where there is no cursing of one "side" or the other. They have caused a partition in their hearts yet they think they are united and all they need is a separate state? They need to open their eyes, educate themselves, remove the hatred, and live and let live. Pashtuns from both Pakistan and Afghanistan have flaws, but no one can see their own errors, and they know this fact yet they still continue this battle of words against each other. I mean, come on, I can't even see a tasteful youtube video without its nasty comments leaving a bitter taste in my mouth.

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  3. NNNNooooo! I had written a reply to Anonymous's comment above, but somehow, it didn't get posted! Ugh!! :@

    Well, I forgot much of what I'd said, but ... thak you very much for dropping by and leaving a comment! But about my becoming a politician -- hahahaha! Noooo! :D I couldn't be one; I've other priorities, all of which still revolve around Pukhtuns. But you're right: To help our people, we need to first understand them. And we're definitely not helping them by cursing and bashing the country they love desperately (Pakistan). I am fed up of the opinion that they love it only because they're not enlightened, so I'm no longer going to hear that from anyone.

    Thanks again for your comment!

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  4. Hinnnnooooooooooooo! I, too, have yet to see a decent conversation between two groups of Pashtuns, one that loves Pakistan and wants to remain a part of it and the other that hates it and wants to be separated from it, without either or both sides resorting to personal attacks. The Pakistani Pashtun will go, "I'm NOT an Afghan!!!" And the other will go, "LOL. Hahahhahahaha!!! Don't you know, Khushal Baba said to get your sword and slay anyone who says that Afghan and Pashtun are not the same!" :| Okay, that's wrong of me - I took the comment of the minority of nationalists. But what I meant is that the Pakistan-hating Pashtun will respond with, "But ALL Pashtuns are Afghans, while not all Afghans are Pashtuns." (I agree with that part personally.) But then they'll add: "You see, you just don't know your history, AND you're suffering from an identity crisis."
    That's where it gets messy. How dare we?!

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  5. I'mna paste the comments to this post that I received on Facebook, k? Here goes.

    FS: Ela di da nakhi myanz oowishto!
    ME: Y'think so? :D

    FS: Yeah definitely... I consider Pakistan my homeland (no offense to anyone) and I believe I have the right to do so. Nobody can deny me this right, nobody can say I don't know anything (although I have been labelled as a non-pashtun and a porkistani many times)... and its not just me, its everyone... besides Swat, I have been in Peshawar uni for many years, and I yet have to come accross any Pashtun who does not consider Pakistan his/her homeland (and trust me most of these are more educated than many of these Pakistan bashers).. for the establishment, its not just the Pashtuns or Balochs who hate it, its the majority of Pakistan, including many Punjabis... but thats another story!!!

    and now that the world cup is on... and that Pakistan is facing India in the semi-finals in India, under the captaincy of a pakhtun, i am more Pakistani than ever :p

    ME: Exactly. That's the irony in this whole deal, kana! Che the Pashtuns of Pakistan are crazy about Pakistan, and many don't even like to be referred to as "Afghans" -- just "Pashtuns." And yet, we, while claiming to be representing Pashtuns and fighting for their rights, dare to fight against that which they love more than their dear selves?
    And that's another point, yes, that "even" Punjabis and other non-Pashtuns are unhappy--but hell, they don't go around calling it Porkistan and "F*uckistan" and all. It's the latter term that really got me thinking of how ridiculous we can be when trying to make a point.

    FS: Its actually working against these pakistan bashers.. people now hate Afghanis and all these people who have no respect for their feelings...

    FS: (Thinking like these people now) .. its actually a plan excellently executed by the establishment to make pashtuns hate afghans and afghanistan and nationalist.. they are spreading these names - porkistani etc.. and our innocent pashtun brothers are just mere pupets..

    ME: It's just gettting funnier and funnier now ... I mean, how can we claim to be future/current leaders of a people whom we consider uneducated or unaware or lacking the "correct" knowledge just because they consider themselves to be Pakistani Pashtuns while we, the future "leaders," think of ourselves as Afghans?

    It's okay to acknowledge the wrongs of a country -- but only to work on fixing them or ensuring that the same or other mistakes aren't made in the future. Denying the fact, for instance, that Swat is universally recognized as a part of Pakistan is silly now.

    Indeed. If we want to "educate" the poor misguided and unenlightened Pashtuns east of the Durand Line, there's a proper way to do so... and that way is definitely not to ridicule the country they consider their own!

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  6. FS: I was a discussion with N about this a few days back.. its all about priorities.. their priority is to bash pakistan and not to guide Pashtuns in Pakistan for getting their rights and for putting an end to their sufferings (they would get support from many civil society movements as well as political movements).. their priority is to do propaganda work ... spread hatred... and they fail to understand that, as you said Pakistan being a reality, Pashtuns in Pakistan will face more discrimination even from those punjabis who are sypmpathetic with pahstuns if they are continously being called porkis etc etc by pashtuns...

    ME: Come to think of it, you're right, Pazlisubana. There's no sincere intentions to help Pashtuns achieve their human rights; it's just hatred that's getting the best of too many of us. Our priorities are misplaced, so much so that we intentionally have done to ourselves what we pity the "Pakistani Pashtuns" of having had done to them. As I say in my post, may we never be successful in getting our own rights if doing so means bringing others down or denying the same rights to others.

    MA: [Qrratugai,] I disagree there are some fallacies in your argument. Primarily those related to US/Britain and Libya. Also just because many people love a country doesn't enhance an argument or disprove. It is simply a reality. Many people loved the USSR, but there were people who despised the state. Many people loved Nazi regime, but there were others who despised it. That doesn't have any direct impact on the quality of those said states. Second of all, just because libyans dont hate libya doesn't mean anything towards Pakistan. You are comparing ideological states where different nations seek a different future (at times in a reactionary manner) to a state that was essentially not colonized but nevertheless a sort of post-colonial state in the Maghrib. If you want your agument to hold weight in one similar instance then use a different nation within or ethnicity or community who does not identify the idea of "libyan" (i.e. ask the amazighs of their idea of arabization in the Maghrib).

    Second of all, I am a little confused at your stand. In principle you support unity but at the same don't hate the entity which has illegally usurped your land? That doesn't make sense. It is like the joke by Chris Rock about the uncle who abuses and molests his nephew but pays his way through college (in Pakistan's case, they didn't even do that). Quite frankly I am sick of the so-called "oh its not the country but the leaders fault"...this imho does not and has never applied to this state. Their very founder reneged on the 1940 resolution, they have recreated their identity so many times that they make Madonna look authentic. He created a muslim ideological state but was secular and yet did not follow any of the set value system of the muslim world. Iqbal was apparently the one who saw a dream, but in another letter he is supposedly not for it. This is a joke. Lmar pa dwao gotho na patheegee. I am sorry there comes a point where you call it like you see it.

    P.S. Majority does not equate being correct. Do you think movements or political change happens when 50+1 magically take one stand? Had this been the case then Pashtunkhwa should have never been a part of Pakistan, since barely even half of the so-called referendum supported Pakistan. BTW people in swat were mostly grateful considering the army cleared up the mess they created...peace was better than the destruction they brought into swat....and not everyone is supportive of them. I too know swatiyan who are of the opposite opinion but are not neccesaruly nationaliyaann.

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  7. ME: @ FS: Oh, and why should anyone have to apologize for or say "no offense" upon saying, "I am a Pakistan"? Many Pashtuns now seem compelled to do this. Why should anyone be offended by what anyone else's identity is? What does that say about the insecurities of our audience, or whoever we're talking to? It's really sad! Screw anyone who is gonna get offended or express violent disagreement over the identity of Pakistani Pashtuns!

    ME: @ MA: [MA,] thanks for your comment!

    I may have not been clear about my purpose in mentioning Libya/ U.S./Britain in my post. It was simply to show that you don't hate a "country" for what its officials or leaders do, for the crimes it commits against people, whether its own people or others. Most Pashtun nationalists hate Pakistan for what it's done to Pashtuns (and others). And it's fine to hate it -- I don't have a problem with it, and I couldn't care less whether people loved or hated a country, whichever country they decide to hate or love. What I'm entirely against and can't respect a person for is so completely bashing and ridiculing the country that the country's name becomes "Porkistan" or "Fuckistan," as sin Pakistan's case.

    Like, what the hell?!

    Second, what does "majority does not equate being correct" mean? ;) Is there really a correct opinion in this whole Pakistan vs Pashtunistan/Afghanistan matter? Again, it only shows that we think our people are misguided or unenlightened just because they love Pakistan. This idea, I can never agree with or support.

    My stand? Simple: I want a free Pashtunistan as much as any other nationalist wants it. But the difference between me and many of the nationalists I know (referring here particularly to those whose official term for Pakistan is "Porkistan" or "F*ckistan") is that I don't want a Pashtunistan at the expense of bashing another ethnic/national group -- and certainly not at the expense of wishing Pakistan evil.

    I insist that it's okay to disapprove of what Pakistan does, it's okay to hate it, even, it's okay to not consider yourself as one--but do all of this while bearing in mind your PEOPLE'S ideology in mind, your people the majority of whom love Pakistan to death and consider themselves Pakistani.

    My main question/concern? This: How dare we fight against the rights of our people by fighting against the country they love more than anything else?

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  8. MA: Well I see where you are coming from and I don't like that either. However that doesn't really justify your initial arguments, just simple points to the fact that people are stupid (in certain instances).

    However that is a slim argument to hold in considering that these are reactionary arguments not the base or foundation.

    I would be offended to continually call this my state which has ruined my people...and no it is not the same with panjabis, sindhis, etc. I know I have to live (for now) with those areas of mine under this pseudo-state (da amreeka pa ghaarra) but that doesn't mean I wouldn't want a change. Kurds are trying, palestinians are, so are the chechens. Those in balochistan actually do realize this, hence why they are separatists. If poverty and rights were so inmportant then maybe Jinnah lala should have thought about that..I doubt even 99 % of the hindus actually were antagonistic towards the muslims (or vice versa).

    ME: QUOTE: "However that doesn't really justify your initial arguments,"

    What do you understand my argument to be?

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  9. MA: What are you saying khor? You want a unified Pashtun state obviously it will come at the expense of those states. You can't wish good and simultaneously opt for separatism at the same time. About the last part, you have to ask that question from yourself. If you look at any of these "movements" for rights majority of society was complacent...look at the civil rights movement in America (which is not an entirely proper example, but it is a close one)....that is reality of how things are. A few people make the changes and the inroads and as the political tide turns people jump the bandwagon. People love wearing che t-shirts but forget they were but a few when the started.

    MA: Basically you said that you have an issue with people (nationalists) that insult Pakistan..you believe that it doesn't help Pashtuns, especially considering that many considering their home. Then you went on to use the examples of Swat, Libya, etc.

    ME: Kha, so let's say that my argument is that insulting Pakistan, the country that their own people consider their homeland, isn't the proper or educated way to go about achieving their goal of a free Pashtunistan. What's wrong with that? More importantly, give me just one good reason why anyone should insult Pakistan. Surely, you don't think it's okay to call Pakistan Fuckistan or Porkistan ... no?

    MA: First of all, lets not go for argument's sake...tell me what you really intended your argument to be, otherwise it is a waste of time khor. So kindly tell me whether I understood your argument correctly or not. Manana.

    My argument is definitely that Pashtun nationalists take the wrong approach in making their point: They bash the country that the people they claim to be fighting/seeking independence for, the Pashtuns, love to death. This only makes Pashtuns hate them and repel them as much as possible, and as long as they don't have the support of the majority of the Pashtuns, they will not succeed in gaining their independence from Pakistan.

    Most importantly to me, though, is the fact that insulting Pakistan by naming it Porkistan, etc. will not get us anywhere and only misrepresents Pashtun nationalism as a whole.

    My question to you, however, is: Why do you hate Pakistan? That's where I think you misunderstood a part of my argument, where I brought up Britain and the U.S.

    MA: First of all, majority of the nationalist parties (if we can call them that) do not hate Pakistan...it is only a select few people who have taken a reactionary route. This, too, has to do with the wrongs of the state. Obviously if your fa...mily, home and people are humiliated by that state people can go one of three ways (off the top of my head)- they can be complacent (which in pakistan's terms popularly is pakistan or kufr), constructive efforts or turn reactionary. Some of them turned reactionary. That is the reality of things...the fact that you seem them on internet just means they have an added medium to channel their views (or anger). This shouldn't be surprising at all, but a new reality of today.

    You know very well why I dislike this state. Other than the fact that it is ideologically a joke (both in terms of the religion it supposedly takes its credibility from) and as a Pashtun. Their effects of their policies have just made it all the more concrete. Quite frankly I don't see any favourable future for Pashtuns in Pakistan......and believe me if we do even get the autonomous united province I would be happy, but I am doubtful.

    **More later, folks.**

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  10. Another thing.... You live in the U.S.A and there is possibly a few thousand Pakhtuns in the US. You call yourself an American because you moved to the USA.
    People that were born and raised in Pakistan and who have Pakistan running through their blood, you expect them to give up Pakistan and walk away?
    You live in the USA, you can call yourself American, why cant a Pakhtun living in Pakistan call himself/herself a Pakistani?
    You probably have more brains then I do, since you are doing Phd, but please enlighten me.
    Don't come back with a lame excuse of opportunities in USA and that is why you call yourself an American.
    No denying, USA is a great country and definitely is an attraction.
    My point is, you are not on the ground in Pakistan to actually help your people, all you do is TALK about it. Go to Pakistan and live with YOUR people and THEN you get the right to say that you feel their pain, until then, leave PAKISTAN out of it.
    Pakistan is made up of its people and it is the people that make or break the image of the country.
    If anything, move to Afghanistan, you already have a homeland there, but yeah, Pakistani Pakthtuns love Pakistan and are more than happy in Pakistan.
    How about carving a mini state in the USA and calling it Pakhtunistan? Since you have probably been living there for some time....apply for it or start a movement, you never know you might succeed.

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  11. and fyi, currently Pakistan is busy preparing for a show down with India on March 30, 2011 under the leadership of our captain Shahid Afridi, the Pakhtun who was born in Khyber-Pakhtunwa and lives in Karachi now and is a proud Pakistani just like millions other Paktuns!
    So at least till 30th march, root for Afridi and the Pakistani team.
    And again, i appreciate you approving the comments.

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  12. Wow, the replies section is in itself a blog post. You know, I have learned so much about Pashtun/Pakhtuns from your blog.

    You know, the issue in Pakistan, is that it can be made into at least five or six different countries. There are so many different people living 'under one roof' that it is inevitable that stuff like this comes up.

    I, honestly, didn't know about the whole Darud line. Maybe educating the masses about our 'real', unadulterated history would be a start in moving forward. We should be comfortable talking about Pakistan's involvement with the discrimination of Bengalis, Pashtuns, muhajirs, pathan, etc.

    After reading your blog, following other Pashtuns, and much deliberation, I want to do something for that part of the world. My not-so-distant ancestry is closely tied with these people and I want to go to that part of the world and do something.

    For some reason, though, I feel that the only way to move forward would be to encourage more Pashtuns to go into education and politics, and make them feel part of Pakistan.

    Just my two cents.

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  13. Thank you, Anonymous and Rukhpar Mor, for your involvement in the discussion! Your views are deeply appreciated!

    @ Anonymous (#2?): Your response indicates that you think I'm not supportive of Pashtuns who consider themselves Pakistani. If that's really what you understand my view to be, then know that it's an incorrect conclusion of at least this blog post. I use your reasoning to say that they have as much a right to call themselves Pakistani as an American Pashtun does to call her/himself American.

    What many don't seem to understand is that Pakistan is a political entity. "Pakistani" is a political identity, whereas "Pashtun/Pukhtun" is an ethnic identity. An ethnic identity is eternal and never changes with changing political boundaries; political identities, on the contrary, are always subject to change. For example, if Pukhtunkhwa were to become a part of, say, Malaysia, I (a Pashtun) would remain a Pashtun, but I would become a Malaysian politically.

    Also, no Pashtun in the U.S. or the UK or anywhere else denies her/his Pukhtunness. They'll make it a point to let you know that they're Pukhtuns but with British/American/etc. citizenship; they'll also call themselves American/British/etc. Pashtuns. Similarly, the Pashtuns of Pakistan who have Pakistani citizenship and who love the country to death, why can't they have the right to call themselves Pakistani? As I was telling a friend, in a comment pasted in the above discussion, why must a Pakistani Pashtun have to apologize for referring to him/herself as a Pakistani, which she/he knows or believes her/himself to be?

    As for accepting your comments, LOL. As long as the comments posted in this box are not offensive (and I decide if they're offensive or not), I accept all of them.

    Thanks again for visiting and commenting!

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  14. Rukhpar Morrrrrr!!!
    "Ka khairee" is pronounced the way it's spelled, yeah. Really, it's supposed to be "ka khair yee." ("Khair" as in the Arabic(/Persian?)/Urdu "khair"!) And it means "if there's khair (in it)," or the Pashto version of InshaAllah.

    I agree with you that if the problem is that the Pashtuns of Pakistan aren't "really" educated about their history and that's why they love Pakistan, then that needs to start happening soon-- but properly! Not like the way many I see are doing, which is by simply cursing Pakistan. Unfortunately, most of them have limited their "activism" to online forums/networks, almost all of whom even live abroad. That just doesn't make sense to me at all. They've run away from the people they wanna help? I know, I know I'm one of them, but at least I don't claim to be helping them NOW. My work with Pukhtuns will begin when I'm there and involve myself physically there, whenever that might be.

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  15. Continuing the comments....

    AN: [Qrratugai]: That was brilliant yo! I'm SO glad you brought this up and you just earned yourself some more cool-ness points for doing so. FS wrora, you pretty much summed up everything I wanted to say. I couldn't agree anymore with your comments. I myself have yet to come across those Pukhtoons who hate Pakistan or don't consider themselves Pakistani for that matter. Actually, I don't even recall running into an Afghan person doing that. They're always glad to meet Pakistani Pukthoons (now I COULD be wrong here as I'm referring to my very own personal encounters). But I would certainly love to find out WHERE these Pakistan-bashers/haters exist (besides from online forums and such) so I can go tell them they need to mind their own business. Like you said, no one has the right to call me names just because I wish to relate myself to a country they hate (for god knows what reason). That's just ignorance at its finest. And speaking of the world cup, hell yea, I think I'm currently the most patriotic/hardcore PAKISTANI Pukhtoon out there, go ahead and bash me all you want, I DON'T CARE!) I can never stop bragging about the Pukhtoons in our team (they're the reason I started watching cricket in first place haha. Especially, with a Pukhtoon leading the team, it doesn't get any better.

    ME: AK guley, that's the whole point! Almost all of them are online, active in Pashtun forums and such. I don't deny, though, that a few of them do live in Pakistan, but I know of 5 at most. From Swat, though, I know none. The Swatis who do hate Pakistan are online or live abroad.

    That's not to imply that they don't matter just because their activities are mostly virtual or that they don't live in Pakistan. It's only to reiterate the fact that virtually no one back home hates Pakistan.

    MA: @AN you have the right to love or bash this state...your choice, but kindly understand that we too on the other side of the fence have a point as well. Is your pride predicated on "being born there" as if our forefathers magically jumped on this land thanks to jinnah lala ? Just an query.

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  16. FS: @ AN... Everyone is excited by the team's performance, but not more than Pakhtuns... and then everybody just loves Afridi... looking forward to the mother of all finals at Mohali on Wednesday and I can't wait! and all I can say say is Boom Boom Afridi ... Jaan Jaan Afridi .. aw chakay chawke yi chi day bat gaind la raapredi...
    @ MA ... re your question about our forefathers... I was born in Pakistan and thats all that matters to me... i was born a Pakistani and I'll die a Pakistani.. my parents were born in Swat State and so were their parents... but they are as proud Pakistanis as I am... and so are all my friends and their families... I don't need to go back for the roots of our forefathers to find my identity because A) I am not going through an Identity Crisis - I am a Pakistani Pakhtun and I am proud of it... and B) its ridiculous because that would be like asking the Americans if their forefathers magically jumped on this land .. and that they should stop calling themselves Americans and go to their roots! So I say it again: The only thing that matters to me is Pakistan, and no I don't want to go into the roots of my forefathers and I don't want to join Afghanistan... why is this so hard for people to understand? and why should I be denied the right to be so? (PS. I am not in a mood for a discussion - this was just answering your question... whether you give it passing marks or just a big F, I dont care and I am not in the mood to answer anymore questions)

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  17. MA: lol see that is where it all comes down to for those that defend this state..I was born here. I am sorry but to me that is not a logical defense for a state. I was born in Peshawar and I don't support it. Does that imply my stand is logical?

    No one denied you the right...clearly you mention (I am confused though was that before you were anti-pakistan or after? ) Were you not the same guy who said F Pakistan or the one who had the flag of Pashtunistan posted on your display months ago? Wrora I saw that so-called being born proud then hating then proud again approach not only from you but many many others. It doesn't bother me, just shows the shallowness of the state. Again this is my opinion. And you can't compare immigrants to a new land to people who have lived there ancestrally and who still maintain that identity. It is not one and the same.

    P.S. I couldn't care less...to each his/her own.

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  18. FS: @ MA... I was never Anti-Pakistan... I guess you forgot our long discussion during those days .. when you asked me if I want to work in Pakistan for Pashtuns or want independence.. and I told you then that Pakistan is a reality and I want to live in reality... and you said .. ok you work for Pakistan and we will work for a united Afghnistan which will be a reality soon... Yes I had my grudges against Pakistan, I still have some, and I still voice them... its my country and I have the right to have grudges... And if there wasn't something in Pakistan to be proud about, those many people who you saw with being born proud then hating then proud again approach shows the shallowness of the hating phase... if these so many people thought the hating thing was just and right, they wouldn't become proud again... there must be something that made them proud again and leave the "hate" camp or "Afghanistan" camp!!!

    Regarding immigrants... i don't know about you coz last time you were from Shangla and now Peshawar... but if you check the history of Swat, it belonged to Swatis, and when the yusufzais came they drove them out of Swat (they are now in abotabbad/mansehra)... that kinda make atleast us Swatis immigrants atleast, just like the Americans did with the natives... its not different at all... and then what would you say to all those Pahtuns which include many from Swat and even waziristan who gave up their lives for Pakistan in the 65 war, especially on the Kashmir front? Their actions were illogical because they did not belong to the state and their blood means nothing to you?

    PS. If everyone believed in "to each his/her own" just like you and if everyone could just Care a little about the feelings of others, we wouldn't be having this discussion!

    ME: Folks are asking me in private messages how exactly Pukhtuns' joining Afghanistan will bring peace to Pukhtuns or would be good for them in any way. Some are also asking what would happen to the non-Pukhtuns of Afghanistan.

    Any answer?

    MA: we are having this discussion because of the article you put your point of view forward as did I. I am aware of our history and it is still not the same since tribal conflicts and movement was common among Pashtuns and our identity ...and tribe stayed intact. That is not the case with America. No khaana you discussed those things later on, prior to that you mentioned an ataturk like person to help Pashtuns. You clearly cursed the country and had a seperatist map. About the hate, well I have made my stand clear and truth be told it beats "I was born here..." quite well (not that it is a contest, rather a principle). Being born is not cogent defense, but as I said your choice. I am sure if a new state comes, the new generation will say the same and maybe others justified the mughals and Safavids the same way....however last I recall Mirwais neeka and Khushal Baba were more respected for the contrary stand they took, no?

    [Qrratugai,] ask yourself this question as you support the unity of your people. Surely you have considered these things before asking for the unity of your people?

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  19. ME: No, MA, I've always actually wondered what would happen to the non-Pashtuns of Afghanistan if the Pashtuns on the other side rejoined them. Anyone else is free to answer - preferably a nationalist, Pazlisubana, lol.

    FS: Qrratugai...
    A) I am not a nationalist so preferably I should not say anything
    B) I never thought about joining Afghanistan so I have no Idea about what will happen to non-pashtuns of Afghanistan
    C) I have already discussed how will it bring pe...ace to pashtuns in the previous comment...
    D) I am not lol :D

    MA: FS, I am aware of where you stand...but unity of Pashtun is not contingent on the two existing states they can be joined together in the future. There are many other ways. You just choose a strawman to somewhat put your argument forward.... Again you were the one who used the very weak example of Americans not me.
    BTW, FS, say we take your hypothetical scenario..what would be wrong with that? Wouldn't that benefit Pashtuns in the long run?

    @Qrratugai, it is odd that you have wanted Pashtun unity but overlooked such a crucial issue. Anyways there are different ways of looking at it all depending on the scenari of the region. It good as well be that Pashtuns carve their own state from both countries...it could be two autonomous Afghan areas (Afghanistan and Pashtunkhwa) who opt for unity in the future or semi0unity..it might as well be a loy Afghanistan scenario. Thee are there and all dependent on the situation today and in the future.

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  20. MA: p.s. I am not part of the nationalist parties either I just believe in the unity of my people.

    ME: No, I understand and have considered the various possibilities -- but in all cases, you didn't explain what happens to the non-Pashtuns, particularly in the case where Pukhtuns rejoin Afghanistan.

    You don't have to join a nationalist party to be a nationalist, though. But it's a matter of whether you consider yourself one. If you don't, then I apologize for labeling ya!

    MA: I don't consider myself one in what we call nationalist or whatever I just believe in the unity of my people. To me, on both counts as a Pashtun and a Muslim I can't accept the state, its ideology or the durand. So that is why I support it....

    We can't speak for other people...ideally we can have a power-sharing agreement with them and live in harmony, hopefully opening up central asia to the greater region. In reality it could go either way from reconciliation to eventual civil war (which btw is looking likely if NATO leaves without any Pashtun unification)...again it depends on a number of factors and the scenarios at hand.

    ME: But if we're gonna have the same problem with the non-Pashtuns in Afghanistan, why leave Pakistan then? Or is it because Pashtuns will be in majority in Afghanistan so power will be in our hand?

    MA: Well like I said different scenarios...but say we entertain the loy Afghanistan one...in a hypothetical world we would have to give them their rights as they wil be the minority not us. It is not the same case as Pakistan, rather the opposite though with a potential of being bloody. Like I said this all depends on the stability of the region, and NATO.

    **End of discussion, as of now.**

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  21. FS:
    Qrratugai... why do people don't understand (and I am saying this on the behalf of thousands of Pakistani pashtuns I know all over pakhtunkhwa from dir and Swat to mardan, charsadda, peshawar, Kohat, Hangu, Tal, Parachinar, Khyber, dara, bannu, karak, and even wazristan, Zhob and Quetta... thanks to peshawar university and islamia college hostels - and i have been to all these places and have lived there atleast for a week) We love Pakistan, we consider ourselves Pakistanis... we consider afghans our brothers, but we dont want to be part of Afghanistan, we are happy being Pakistanis... why don't they even try to understand??? when people had left swat and were in camps, i had a discussion with these nationalists on Pakhtunkhwa peace forum ... and I challenged them with a bet: I am a student and I don't have much but I am willing to bet with whatever I have [...] to come with me to Pakistan we'll go to camps or anywhere they like in khyber pakhtunkhwa and we'll ask people whether they want to be Pakistanis or want to join Afghanistan and if we find even 10% people say they want to join Afghanistan, i'll lose the bet and if not, they lose the bet... another guy replied saying add my X dollars to that aswell... and nobody else replied... and my bet even stands now.. this is a reality which people ignore.. and if they accept this reality and change their priorities many good things can happen!!! if Asfandyar's corrupt party (which is supposed to be the most nationalist party) is happy with Pakistan and can win election there and become an important part of the ruling coalition and can force a name change and can make primary education compulsory in Pashto ... they can do anything.. but its all about priorities and sincerities!!!! Pashtuns don't even understand each other and they don't even try to understand each other and they talk about unity!!!

    [Nationalists] should atleaast try understanding us - the Pakistani Pashtuns... only by understanding us, can [they] start with bringing a real change... otherwise.. its just all talk and no action.. its just focusing all the energies on a propaganda campaign which will yield nothing!

    ... and I said no offense because many people take "I love Pakistan" as an offense... as if we are not entitled to having an opinion...

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  22. FS: Pashtun population in Pakistan is increasing, and from our discussions (pakistani phd students here) it now seems that everyone favours more provincial autonomy.. the younger generation of Pakistan feel more for their Baloch and Pashtun brothers and do more than you can imagine.. all my punjabi friends want to split punjab in the three provinces (btw i dont know if you are aware or not, southern punjab is more backward, and has been subject to more negligence than even the backward parts of Pakhtunkhwa) southern punjab, central punjab, and potohar... all of them are in favour of a saraiki province... the way things are going, things will get better in our lifetime.. Pashtuns will have more almost equal control over Pakistan in the future if not more .. and if mahajirs (who are much less than pashtuns) can work for their rights with strong political movement, why cant the Pashtuns?

    Pashtun population in Pakistan is 35.64 million (which I believe is much less than the actual) Pashtun population in Afghanistan is 13.46 million according to CIA world fact book.. and these people want to make these 35 Million people (against their wishes) join the 13 million in Afghanistan.. then according to official figures around 8% of Karachi's population is Pashtuns, but in the reality its close to 20 - 25%... then the population of Pashtuns in Islamabad is 10.5% (and again its much less than reality as i was there and pashto and pashtuns were everywhere)... same with quetta.. so where do we stop? inside KyberPakhtunkhwa, DI Khan is mostly Saraiki, Abbotabad/Mansehra Hindki (but still a huge pashtun presence) Chitral mostly Chitralis... and Kohistan full of kohistanis what do we do with them? and where do we draw the boundry? how do we decide the boundry with balochs??? there is a huge movement these days for making the tribal areas a separate province or add them to KPK.. pashtuns have won seats in Karachi.. they can even win atleast one in Islamabad.. they can win many in Baluchistan ... that would make them a major part of government, if only we could focus our energies to make pashtuns politically strong... as i said earlier, they are a major part of the ruling coalition even though they havent got all pashtun seats... if they win all seats, and if the tribal areas are also included... Pashtuns will be a political force without which even nobody would be able to form government... and once we get that strength, we can influence anything... we can even influence foreign policy especially in relation to Afghanistan - making life easier for them.. and I personally believe this is much easier than getting a separate state, coz nobody will join you for a separate state, but you can get many for creating a political power... all you need is a group of honest individuals who take the lead in their respective areas and unite... this is what I believe... and this is what I think... and my yesterday's comment about peace for pashtun meant the exact opposite... if you do break Pakistan, ISI will never let you l.ive in peace and they will have many people to support their cause!

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  23. ME: My major concern [regarding the unification of all Pashtuns by joining Afghanistan] has been and still is the fact that Pukhtuns aren't the only people [in Pukhtunkhwa, Balochistan, etc.]; what'll become of the others? they'll have to join Afghanistan, too? or leave Pakistan when they don't want to? And what about the non-Puhktuns of Afghanistan? What'll become of them? They'll have to flee the land once it becomes ours? No, they'll remain a minority and we're going to oppress them just as is the case with all minorities everywhere.

    We really learn nothing from history. Don't we know for a fact that when a country is getting its independence, millions are killed in the process? And the wounds remain for centuries. And we still wanna do this? Who said we had to unite only by joining Afghanistan? Why do we have such an artificial definition of unity? Most anti-nationalist will also use the argument of MUSLIM unity when arguing against Pashtuns' separation from Pakistan, while most nationalists use a similarly twisted understanding of unity to impose their version of it on the other side. It doesn't make sense to me.

    And you raise a good point - there are far, FAR more Pashtuns in Pakistan than there are in Afghanistan; how much sense does it make to have the larger number leaving to join the smaller number?

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  24. FS: What will become of others depends on a very big "IF" (if we can leave Pakistan).. you remember the protests in Hazara etc against naming the province Pakhtunkhwa - and now we are talking about leaving the country) - there are quite a few reasons even Pakhtuns will never leave Pakistan - the major reason being that contrary to what people would want us to believe, Pakhtuns are quite well off in Pakistan.. they are everywhere - A) as in organizations: from cricket, to Army to government jobs to Private sector to ISI to SMEs to big Corporations B) Geographically: Everywhere in Pakistan. You only realise that when you actually live in Pakistan... If you want to follow the Baloch as an example for separation, well Pakhtuns (except for the tribal areas) are much more educated, much more well off and much more settled, they are the second biggest chunk of Pakistani population... they have not been exploited by their Nawabs and Wadairas as much as the Balochis ... they have not been kept in perpetual darkness by their Nawabs and Wadairas... and their opinion is not influenced by them... Overall economic disparity in Pakhtuns is not as high as in Balochis ... and top of that they love Pakistanis more than Afghanis (if you remember, in our villages they would call Afghanis "Kabalian/Kabalay" and there was little respect for them, if any)... so I don't see any possibility of even a movement like Balochis by Pashtuns, let alone leaving the country...

    And no its not because of Islam or Muslim unity as some people would argue... its not Islam that is binding us (Afghanis are also muslims - whats the problem there? and then there are many hindu and sikh pashtuns who call themselves Pakistani) Maybe it was Islam that brought people together in the begining to make the country (except for Swat), but that ended there... I don't love Pakistan just because I am a Muslim, I love Pakistan because its my country... if Islam was the reason, I would be more Saudi than Pakistani... but I am not... Islam can further reinforce my love for Pakistan but its not basic reason for my love for Pakistan... the basic reason for my love for Pakistan and being Pakistani... its Pakistan and being Pakistani that keeps us together... It the concept of a homeland, a country we call our own, that binds us together.. and Within this homeland/country, Pakistan, everyone has his own identity that reflects his roots (nobody loses his identity or roots as the nationalists would argue)... Sindhi, Saraiki, Punjabi, Baloch, Pashtuns etc etc... and we carry this identity with us whever we go in Pakistan, and it also reflects our roots.. Pakistan is our country, where everyone recognizes our roots and identify us with them, so we lose nothing...

    ... to be continued ...

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  25. And then unity lies in our hearts, and not in geography... if we love each other, borders mean nothing ... and if geography is that important, then what about the Pashtun diaspora especially the ones who will be left in Pakistan (Karachi and Islamabad for example)? you cannot unite us by tearing us from the country we associate us with. Its not a family reunion, and these nationalists believe it is.. they take it as a family reunion or as if they are uniting the 12 lost tribes... If you bring bring my dead relatives back, and I would get to meet them once we are united, then yes I am in, but if not, then after family comes friends, and my friends are in Pakistan, and you are uniting me with strangers (which might be exciting for some but not for me) by taking me away from my friends! If I love them separated pashtun brothers, I'll love them whether I am in Pakistan or Indonesia, or Canada or France.. If I don't then a new country wont make me love them!

    And then as you said, what is the guarantee that we would not exploit other ethnicities, when we actually start with imposing our will of joining "our" country (and make them leave their country).. If this is the start, what would be the end?

    I personally believe, that it would be much more easy, would require much less "unity", and no bloodshed at all, to gather a political clout in Pakistan through which we can not only fight for our rights within Pakistan but also our brothers in Afghanistan, than to get the might to be able to leave Pakistan and (if somehow this "Miracle" does happen then) to live in peace!

    Leaving Pakistan is much more hard (even impossible) and getting our rights in Pakistan would be much easier, if all these nationalist focus their energies on getting them instead of leaving Pakistan!

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  26. I will answer this in detail la khaira saraa. I just want to say for the first part...oh I have lived in so and so and this what people believe is a little weak argument. We all have opinions and people are fickle (the poster knows this better than anyone else)...so this in itself is not plausible.

    The majority do see autonomy as a way but the reality and want is quite different. Will this state be able to act on it? Will the army and intelligence allow this? Just feeling for your brothers is a dollar short and a day too late (or is it a day late and dollar short?). That doesn't change one bit of the ground rality. Not one. Fact: Pakistan is a pseudo state run by the army and Intelligence who are in essence corporations and state within state. Fact: it is a fundamentally broken state, and the chances of its survival (my opinion) hinge on the greater powers continual support for it. Fact: those baloch brothers are already talking in terms of secession...convince them first before throwing everyone else under the bridge.

    Further more, Hazaara is a very small issue and minorities exist in all societies. It is a reality all over the world, but the politics of minorities can not dictate the politics of majority...that is irrational. BTW didn't pakistan have this issue during partition? See this is what I hate the most about the defenders of this state, they use a huge sset of arguments that they will never apply to Pakistan. From the defenders who invoke islam to those who speak of majorities and minorities. Now it is said that more Pashtuns live east of the durand line than west. First of all, so what? The fact that they are more gives them the upper hand. They get the better part of the deal and the pie. Second of all, there were until now (I believe) more muslims in India than Pakistan. Why don't you pakistani supporters apply your own flawed logic to your own state? By your logic, there should be no Pakistan, since clearly you are partitioning the minority of muslims from the majority.

    Oh and when people discuss unity they don't mean one joining the other, or one under the other...it is a joint union. Both will unify and in my opinion it is the best way to garner our interests, our culture, our nation. Pakistan's higher ups obsession with their existential enemy and flawed ideology has had a massive effect on Pashtuns. They have continued their policy despite its damage...on what basis are you guaranteeing these wonderful images? It has been 63 years and I am sorry to tell you that it has gone mostly backward. People used to say the same things about the name change and autonomy...that no one needed it, it was a non-issue, pashtuns need other things. Now that the name change happened everyone started using Pashtunkhwa and joined the bandwagon. What used to be mocked as a small thing became a thing that all wanted to (ironically) gain credit and pride for. What guarantee that they will not switch to the unity side. The way things are shaping in the region it makes sense for Pashtuns to at least politically put forward an agenda...even prior to a state. Nor asae ddazz ddozz khabarae dee.

    P.S. you mentioned camps and no doubt it wasn't peachy but it isn't for the IDPs of FATA either...at least they were let in...where were your brothers in the other provinces for the IDPs of Malakand division.?! Nwar da dwao gotha na pateegee.

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  27. Hello, Anonymous! Welcome to my blog, and thank you very much for your insight.

    I don't remember anyone making a claim by saying "I've lived in so and so and this is what people believe." Clarify, please? If you're referring to the obvious claim (fact, rather) that the Pashtuns of PK don't wanna be independent of Pakistan, then how dare we ignore the opinion of those people by speaking FOR them rather than letting them speak for themselves?

    Regardless of all claims made against/about a country, nothing changes facts, such as that virtually all Pukhtuns of Pakistan wanna remain with Pakistan and don't wanna separate from it.

    Mind proving this wrong?

    QUOTE: "Now it is said that more Pashtuns live east of the durand line than west. First of all, so what?"

    The answer to your "so what?" question is quite obvious: If the ones living IN Pakistan don't wanna join Pakistan, who are those in Afghanistan to make them leave it?

    I wanna make sure you get what that side is sayings. You sound too bitter in your post, so it looks like you're letting your emotions get the best of you. That's also preventing you from forming a more honest judgment about the Pakistani state because you know very well that there are more than one side to this issue, and it's no "fact" that the PK state is a pseudo state; it's a biased and dishonest opinion.

    I believe in letting people speak for themselves, and in this case, we're talking about the Pakistani Pashtuns. Let them speak. Ask THEM if they want independence. If they say no, who are you to impose it on them?

    Lemme reiterate one fact: In my blog post above, if you read it carefully, I'm least concerned with whether Pukhtuns join Afghanistan or not; I'm more concerned with the approach of most nationalists, who mock and insult Pakistan, which is beloved of almost all Pukhtuns of Pakistan, and yet, these nationalists claim to be fighting FOR Pashtuns? If you wanna fight for the betterment of your people, know how to appeal to them first, know how to get their support. You are losing their support by abusing the name of the country they love.

    Like you said, nwar pa dwao gwato na pateegi, kana?

    Manana again for your comment!

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  28. The reason I said so what is based on the logic of the statement. The fact that x number of people are more than y doesn't mean much, especially considering that by that same line of logic Pakistan should not have been a state.
    Who is talking about leaving? I said joint union, which means both of their future will be together in a unified state. It is not as if they are packing and leaving. Also the nationalist parties are from Pashtunkhwa, so it isn't Afghanistan telling them to up and leave, rather the few political voices that espouse these values east of the durand line.
    I am actually fine, not emotional, bitter a little. Then again who isn't considering what the state has done. Actually it is a pseudo-state. If we look at it from the perspective of its own religion where the ideology came from, clearly we see contradictions. Second of all, what is holding this country together? An over-reaching military, and intelligence. That is it. In the past 63 years there is no commonality other than religion (which they share with 1 billion people).

    I am a Pashtun east of the durand line, and I can only speak for myself. I personally believe that it is in our interests to do so. I also do not see any future for Pakistan, at least logically or in the benefit of my people. It would be wrong of me to impose anything. However the poster before me was essentially doing the same. When people talk about politics and a future, one group imposes upon the other. If pakistan stays, it imposes upon the "nationalists" and vice versa. You can't have it both ways.

    If nationalists are an entity within pashtuns east of the durand line, then clearly almost all do not love it. And of course none of the political parties insult it, a few do. This is do a few individuals taking a very reactionary approach. This is the nature of things, if one loses family, well-wishers, property, etc it is hard to maintain constructive opinion. Some people go the other route.

    I haven't abused the name of that country. Rather I ask them and debate with them. I have yet to see any cogent answer. Some abuse Islam to defend it, others have family interests and some say 'well I was born there'. These things go both ways :-)

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  29. hey,
    how about supporting Imran Khan and joining the Tehreek-e-Insaaf. You write well and I believe you can raise your issues better if you join a political party. What party better than Imran Khan's party.
    Don't even think about joining the ANP---ANP sucks the blood out of our homeland.

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  30. Hello, and welcome, Anonymous (#4?)!

    Thank you for such a valuable suggestion, but I regret to inform you that I'mna have to pass on that one :( Sorry.

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  31. P.S. I'll be shocked if you're the same Anonymous as the one whose comment is right above yours. Ao khair ba de ho na ye, lol :p

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  32. We'll...I suppose stay with the blog.....it wont do much more than simple trash talk against Pakistan.
    How about targeting the actual enemy, India? I remember when I was a kind, back in the 70,'s the Pakhtuns used to spit on anything Indian or related to India.
    Now, not only the Pakhtuns, the whole country is lost in the Indian culture.
    I agree, it is due to our own shortcomings, but someone who exploits the weakness of others is the real evil.
    So, spare my homeland and the homeland of million others and keep your energy towards your studies and your new homeland.
    God bless!

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  33. Thanks for your comment, Anonymous!

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  34. Answer this truthfully..do not make up an answer...
    lets say, for arguments sake, that Pakhtunistan is formed.
    Would you leave the USA and move over to Pakhtunistan immediately?
    Lets says this takes place in 5 years, lets say I repeat, and at that time you are a really successful person (I know you will be), would you leave everything in the USA and move to Pakhtunistan?
    I repeat, do not say yes without thinking. You seem to have a passion for a homeland, please tell me if you will move there IF it is formed?

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  35. You're right that I have a passion for my homeland -- but that homeland (Swat) is there right now, too. To me, there'd be no difference between a question "You love your homeland so much, but you're living in the USA. Why don't you just go?" and "You seem to have a passion for a homeland, please tell me if you will move there IF it is formed?"

    The answer to both questions is: There are always circumstances (family, personal, academic -- almost always external) that prevent us from living in or even visiting our homeland.

    So, essentially, your question is whether I'd ever like to live in Pukhtunkhwa (Swat), and the answer is -- of course. I plan to. And my plan to do so would not be contingent upon the independence upon the state; I'd live there whether there is a Pukhtunistan or not.

    Why do you ask? An interesting question.

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  36. Do you think it would be better if the whole large province of Khyber-Pakhtunkhwa was divided into at least two provinces and one named Pakhtunistan? I think that the problem of self-rule can be solved by giving individual provinces more rights to control their own affairs, like the states in the US do.

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  37. You thought before answering, and gave a good thought.
    I am certain that you will not really move to Pakhtunistan and are writing this blog because you believe this is what our people want, and you are 100% wrong on this.
    People do not want what you think they want.
    Go there, live there, watch the people, interact with them and then you will know what they want.
    Cannot be asking for homeland or fight for one if you don't plan on living there.

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  38. I luuurrrve assumptions made about me; they motivate me! Thank you so much for informing me of what I really want and don't want. Dera manana, Anonymous!

    Rukhpar Morrrrr ... I don't think Pukhtunkhwa should be divided into two provinces at all. If it's gonna separate from Pakistan, then it'd become an independent state (not two provinces), or join Afghanistan. Not sure if that's what you mean, though. Clarify, zarrgiya?

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  39. Actually, I was not talking about Khyber Pukhtunwa separating from Pakistan. I don't really like the idea, especially since you are saying that most people of that region are against it.

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  40. no assumptions :)
    declare your love for Pakhtunistan, technically it is already half Pakhtunistan (Kyber), so how about moving here now? or maybe after your phd? We need people like you here on the ground, assisting us with the floods and other problems that we had faced.
    Come on down, Qrratugai, you will be a good leader and a good motivator. Can you write in Pashtu? If so, you can definitely write or rather print your own paper IN your homeland where MORE people will listen to you.
    Sitting 1000's of miles away, you CAN NOT feel what people feel here!
    When was the last time you came here?
    Did you even come here or just know about Swat from your family and friends? (Born there?)

    You gotta talk the talk and walk the walk.

    Do something practical. Your writing may impress your professors for a Phd, but you HAVE to come here to feel and see the ground reality.
    Thank You

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  41. Rukhpar Mor, I misunderstood then! Sorry, jaan! What did you mean?

    Anonymous: You're welcome. Any time!

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  42. u might wanna see this...
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Up8r6ia__qE&feature=player_embedded#at=120
    This is just one example, hundreds of other examples.

    Huge majority of Pakhtuns LOVE Pakistan and laid their lives for their country.
    Long live Pakistan. INSHAHALLAH

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  43. Nice Blog.We Pashtoons are liberal.
    http://pukhtunkhwatimes.blogspot.com/
    http://thepathans.blogspot.com/

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  44. Thanks for dropping by, Waqar!

    I'd hesitate before saying "we" are liberal; some Pashtuns are, and some aren't -- just like other groups of people.

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  45. Hi, Qrratugai,

    trying to establish contact with a real Pashtun. I'm from the evil empire in the west. Writing a novel where one of the characters is this old Pashtun guy and was looking for information and came upon you. Sorry about the crass and abrupt intrusion into your life!

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    1. No need to apologize at all! Sorry for the horribly late response! :| You're welcome to ask whatever may be helpful for your novel.
      Best wishes with it!

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  46. Fianlly someone spoke sense to be honest.Bravo to the writer.khudaye dey mulk a da qaom dey salamat rali

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  47. Rora thank you for writing this article, I couldn't agree more, I don't know what's wrong with these people it's like they are possessed by a virulent hatred that knows no bounds, political realities aside any discerning individual given the power to differentiate between right and wrong by God knows that such hatred can only lead to destruction, if only we had more common sense.

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    1. LOL @ rora :D I suppose when you first read my blog, you didn't know I was a khorey :p

      Sorry for the late reply! Thank you for your comment :)

      My assumption is that they don't understand the reality and don't WANT to understand it either. I may be wrong, but my observations suggest I'm right.
      What's worse in all this is that the same ones hating on PK actually live outside of PK (most of them do, anyway). I don't understand what makes them think they can know what the reality is by sitting on the Internet and talking to privileged Pukhtuns on the Internet, most of whom are nationalists ... I don't know, maybe it makes sense to them?

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  48. I went through the blog and comments in one flow like crazy! Lol.. Makes for a very interesting read. I couldn't help comparing the situation of Pashtuns to Italians of upto the Italian unification, who identified as Italians but were against a unified Italian state. They lived on as separate city-states for centuries, and what eventually brought them together was the French invasion under Napoleon, and even then it took them about half a century to evict the Austrians from some northern parts and create a state.
    The seeds of unification have been sown, and the light of Pashtun nationalism has never been allowed to go off. Although I think not taking part in spreading nationalist agenda would harm the Pashtuns as our culture and language will suffer. I can't speak Pashto fluently and I would like my offspring to reverse that in my family. But even loss of language will not destroy Pashtun identity. German nobles preferred French before Napoleon attacked and it was only afterwards that they actively routed French language from German society. Or take the example of Irish, who don't even speak Irish language anymore or even when they fought for the establishment of the Republic of Ireland (they speak Irish English).
    You are a good writer and hopefully a good speaker in Pashto too. If Pashtunkhwa (I prefer it over the persianized form pashtunistan, and by that I mean all the Pashtuns and not just KP) becomes a state, I will find you and force you to become its first Foreign Secretary (in of course the ideal situation. Lol!)

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  49. whatever the people say but pustun are the real people they live in the real world.
    not living in the dreams. they have their own rich culture and fully furnished.
    the gelious people are interfering which is not allowed to any one who they are.

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  50. Whether East or west of the border, the word Pashtun does literally translate into "Afghan". Being Pashtun and being Afghan is the same thing. As for the Pashtuns in Pakistan, most of them live within the land that is actually Afghan land. Whey they call themselves Pakistani is most likely because they're born there. But nevertheless, I don't believe you can be Pakistani and Pashtun at the same time. Its logically impossible. Being Afghan is not just a nationality, such as being born in Afghanistan. Its also an ethnicity, Afghan aka Pashtun. So it wouldn't be wrong if someone said my nationality is Pakistani, but I am ethnically Afghan. It would be more correc to to say I am an Afghan Pakistani, rather than "I am a Pakistani Pashtun"

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    1. Thanks for your opinion, Anonymous! Very much appreciated. I have explained above why it actually is logical and why most Pakistani Pashtuns prefer to be identified as Pakistanis rather than Afghans.

      Thanks again!

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    2. You gave your opnion on why you think its logical. If Pakistani Pashtuns do prefer to call themselves Pakistani, its not wrong because they are born in the land of Pakistan. That makes sense. But at the same time when they call themselves Pashtun, they are also admitting to be afghan. Pashtuns and Pakistanis have very different cultural practices. From what I've seen the Pakistani Pashtuns do differ from the Afghan Pashtuns. For example, Nazia Iqbal. When watching her videos right away I knew she was from Pakistan, however she was wearing afghan clothing with a Pakistani flag in the bag. It was a bit confusing until I found out she was a Pashtun. So really what Im trying to say is, with the Pashtuns in Pakistan, they're culture is affected by Pakistani culture. Which I don't think is a problem for the Afghan Pashtuns seeing as even though we have a lot of different ethnicities, our cultures are similar in the basic sense.

      As for them preferring to be identified as Pakistanis thats like me wanting to be called Canadian because I live in Canada now. Even people that were born here in Canada they don't call themselves Canadian. They still say im Afghan. Which should be the case for those Pashtuns. Yes you have pride for your home and the land that you live in, and you might PREFER to be called a Pakistani, but that doesn't change the act that you're NOT. You're Pashtun and you were once part of Afghanistan, you're great grandparents and maybe grandparents were part of Afghanistan. Thus making YOU Afghan born on so called Pakistani soil now. Now I can't force someone with all that love for Pakistan to call themselves Afghan. It's their choice, their life and their identity. But fact is fact whether they prefer it or not.
      It's actually kind of ironic because the majority of Afghans don't appreciate Pakistan as a country because of all the political problems. So it's just kind of funny that they prefer being called Pakistani while the majority of Afghanistan doesn't even like Pakistan. And by that I mean the country and politics of Pakistan, not necessarily an individual Pakistani.

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    3. Thank you, Mariam, for your comment!

      Unfortunately, identity politics is not as simple as it may seem. Decades/centuries ago, Pashtun was the same as Afghan and Afghan was the same as Pashtun, but today, that's not completely accurate--if we're to take contemporary politics and nationalities into consideration.

      Identity works differently all over the world. In the U.S., you're considered an American if you're born here or have lived here for a "long" time. I wrote about how it works in Jordan here: http://orbala.blogspot.com/2011/09/on-racism-and-issue-of-identity.html

      The Canada example you gave also doesn't take one crucial fact into consideration: you had to *move* from one country (Pakistan/Afghanistan) to another (Canada) in order to get the Canadian nationality, if you so choose. For the Pashtuns of Pakistan, they didn't: they were always there. It's merely a case of boundaries.

      So your case of Canada is a unique (like in all other countries :D)

      Another thing comes to mind:
      As I explained above, there are no one type of identity, and ethnic and national identities are two of the many types. We should not mix the two up: Pakistani is a national identity, and Pashtun is an ethnic identity. In Pakistan, there are different ethnic groups, among them Kashmiri, Baloch, Pashtun, and Sindhi. Just as there are Sindhi Pakistanis, there are Pashtun Pakistanis. "Afghan," however, is more complex, since it's both a national identity AND an ethnic one: any national of Afghan, such as an Uzbek, is an Afghan. A Pashtun national of Afghanistan is also an Afghan.

      It's the same case with Canada, America, Britain, and every other country in the whole world: every country has multiple ethnic groups. No one is *just* a Canadian; no one is just a Pakistani; no one is just an American -- they all have another identity attached to them, their ethnic identity.

      Over 90% Pakistanis love Pakistan and would fight against joining Afghanistan or getting independence from Pakistan. I've discussed this in the post above. None of them deny that they were *once* a part of Afghanistan, but they also recognize that political boundaries are not permanent. I think your point, as does the point of most Pashtuns who argue that there's no such thing as a "Pakistani Pashtun" (without fully understanding the issue at all), may also point to the issue of Indian vs Pakistani. Does a Pakistani identity exist at all, considering that all of them were Indians before 1947?

      Something to reflect on.

      Thanks for contribution to the discussion! :)

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    4. For the Canada case I also mentioned people that we're born there. They were born there, and their kids were born there. Yet they still tell people they're Afghan, or even some of the Europeans. They are 3rd or 4th generation Canadians, but they still say "I'm, Irish, dutch, Serbian" etc. You make a good point that they never had to move there, they were there to begin with. I agree, and that land was and should still be Afghan land right? They just changed the boundaries so now its not considered Afghanistan, but the people that occupy the land were part of a different country once.

      Yeah I touched on that on one of my posts also, we have very many different ethnicity all of which call themselves Afghan. Afghan is both a nationality and an ethnicity. That's why earlier I mentioned that it would be very correct for these Pashtuns to say "My Nationality is Pakistani, but my ethnicity is Afghan."

      Also for you to say 90% of them prefer Pakistan is wrong because you have no actual proof of that number. You would have to preform a survey or census to truly justify a percentage.

      You make a good point about the Indian and Pakistanis, however it doesn't relate to the Pashtun case. Indians and Pakistanis do have their differences, especially the language. That's what mainly separates them and I suppose religion or for whatever reasons they wanted their independence. They are two different groups of people. Though the different ethnicities living in the countries can relate to Pashtuns. For example there's Punjabis in both India and Pakistan. However, there is a VERY critical difference between a situation like that, than the Pashtun situation. Afghanistan is FOR Pashtuns, MEANS Pashtun and throughout History has been the home of Pashtuns. While an ethnicity like Punjabi, they don't have a country named just for Punjabis. The countries borders were reassigned making pat of Afghanistan into Pakistan. Does that really change anything though? Those people have been in Afghanistan for thousands of years. Just over a 100 years ago they changed the borders. That land is native to Afghans and the people living in that land are native to Afghanistan. So if you think about it, in a sense it is like moving to a new country. Except instead of them migrating, their border did. So knowing that, would you still consider yourself Pakistani or Afghan?

      Just to point this out, Afghanistan obviously hasn't been called Afghanistan for all of its being. There was Khoroson, Aryana etc. Im not TOO familiar with the history but yeah. The people living generally in that mass of land (which was larger before) were all still part of one country which had different names at different points. However the Pashtun people have been called Afghans for much longer.

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    5. And no problem. This is exactly what I was looking for. I wanted to see what Pashtuns in Pakistan refered to themselves as. Haha, and from the looks of it, it seems as if Im one of the only Afghans here..aha And im only half Pashtun :P

      Great discussion:) it's nice to have a discussion with mature and educated people. Unlike Youtube where every other word is some misused swear word. And if you lose, you just swear. Lol
      Thanks for starting the blog!:)

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    6. Glad you understood some of my points, Mariam! And thank you for coming back to share more of your insightful thoughts!

      QUOTE: "So knowing that, would you still consider yourself Pakistani or Afghan?"
      :) I can't believe you're still asking me this question after all of what I have explained in the last few comments and in the post, guluno! I am Pakistani and I'm a Pashtun. If "Afghan" and "Pashtun" are synonymous terms, then why can't I just call myself Pashtun instead of Afghan? I don't want anyone to think I'm FROM Afghanistan, so I prefer just Pashtun and add Pakistani with it so that people know that my nationality is Pakistan. It would be a lie if I said I'm an Afghan when I'm *not*.

      I hope that's much clearer!

      QUOTE: "You make a good point that they never had to move there, they were there to begin with. I agree, and that land was and should still be Afghan land right? They just changed the boundaries so now its not considered Afghanistan, but the people that occupy the land were part of a different country once."

      Except, with one boundary come two different states, right? With two different names. The way the Durand Line was drawn, I do not support at all - but I don't deny its significance in our history, politics, culture, and our utter existence as Pashtuns. The boundary is there whether we like it or not, and our chances of getting rid of it are less than 1%.

      I'll reiterate, and you admitted this as well yourself: Afghan is both an ethnicity and a nationality. It's not a nationality for ALL Pashtuns (as in the case of the Pashtuns from Pakistan), and it's not an ethnicity for ALL Afghans (as in the case of the non-Pashtuns of Afghanistan). My argument has been and always will be that the Pashtuns of Pakistan are both Pakistani and Pashtun; our passports and other national ID documents classify us as "Afghans," but practically, hardly any of us would claim this identity, and most will even argue that we're NOT Afghans; we're just Pashtun.

      I personally see no point of the other side attempting to forcibly tell the Pakistani Pashtuns what they are and who they are and how wrong they are and this and that. We need to understand that this problem, if it's a problem at all ('cause I don't think it is) is so much more complex, more difficult, more historical than we understand it to be.

      QUOTE: "Also for you to say 90% of them prefer Pakistan is wrong because you have no actual proof of that number. You would have to preform a survey or census to truly justify a percentage."

      There's lots of evidence for this by lots of people who actually have done such surveys. But let's say I *have* done my research on ground :) Then what? You should talk to people on ground inside Pakistan to know what the reality is and to know that no one's making this up. Mot of them even mock the idea of a "Pukhtunkhwa"! ... No, seriously - talk to them. And I don't mean Pashtuns from Pakistan online. They're the minority who violently impose their ideas of an independent Pukhtunistan and a Grand Afghanistan on other Pakistani Pashtuns, and their struggle is entirely online: NONE of them are fighting in the real world.

      Understand that when a people are divided, whether by choice or by force, it is absolutely inevitable for them to get to where Pashtuns have come to today. I don't at all blame the Pakistani Pashtuns for denying any connection to Afghan-ness and being "happy," so to speak, in Pakistan and not wanting independence and all.

      And, ya, I hear ya about Youtube and other places where such discussions take place. That's why I prefer decent blogs for these things :)

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    7. By the way ... just thought of something. If I asked a Pashtun from Afghanistan what they are (not knowing that they're Pashtun), what would I expect them to tell me? "I'm an Afghan. 100%." Then what? Would I not want to know if they're Pashtun or Uzbek or Hazara or Tajik and so on? Yes, I would - because that's why I asked them the question in the first place :) Their ethnicity tells me more about them than does their nationality. So, I ask them: "What are you as an Afghan? Tajik? Pashtun? etc.?" Their answer: "I'm a Pashtun."

      Note that their first answer -- "I'm an Afghan" -- told me close to nothing about their identity, and so I had to be more specific.

      My point? Just because someone's Afghan doesn't mean they're Pashtun. This is one reason why I don't call myself Afghan. It's prolly a reason why almost all other Pakistani Pashtuns don't, either. Plus, then you've so much explaining to do!

      I've never argued this before, but now that I think about it, I think this makes more sense: Afghan today is just a national identity and not an ethnic one. Or it shouldn't be an ethnic one, just a national one. Political circumstances have changed, and Khushal Khan Khattak Baba's lines "slay anyone who denies that Pashtun and Afghan are one" no longer hold true, the way they did in the 17th century.

      With such drastic changes and circumstances, our perceptions have to change as well. It's not in our hands.

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  51. I think your last comment really hits the nail on the head. There are so many issues here. I have to tell people that Pakistani is not a race. It's just a nationality, like you rightly mentioned. My dad's side of the family is Pashtun, but they have no connection to their roots, except that they have similar facial features. My dad's family is very close in lifestyle to the Urdu-speaking people (which I am not sure yet what an Urdu-speaking person really means since many Pakistanis who speak other languages can also speak Urdu), but since my dad grew up in Sindh and had many Sindhi friends, he feels connected to that culture too.

    Plus,as you mentioned, should Pakistan even be considered a separate identity since it's only been like 65 years when it separated from India?

    And I don't even want to attempt to go into where my mom's side of the family comes from. They are a gumbo(have you ever had gumbo?) of different races. SO, in conclusion, it's really more complicated than people make it to seem.I guess we should all just learn to live in harmony=)

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    1. RM! Naaa, never had gumbo; didn't even know what it was, but just looked it up, thanks to you :D Is it good? Should I try it?

      So glad you get the whole idea of ethnic vs national identity!

      Your mom's side is that complex, huh! Imagine this: my previous roommate was a Filipino (Fillipina?), Cuban, Mexican, and African American, considering both of her parents' identities. The girl had features from ALL of these, so imagine how beautiful she looked :D She always found it so frustrating when people would ask her, "So, what are you?" The Mexican would be like, "No way in HELL you a Mexican!" (She speaks Spanish at home.) All the other groups were the same way to her. She has it both good and bad.

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  52. After what I had explained earlier I think it was a fair question. Your ancestors , probably grandparents were born in Afghanistan, not Pakistan. So now your parents and yourself are born and raised in Pakistan. Making you a 3rd generation Pakistani. Is that not the same as having gone to a different country, and by the 3rd generation the kids start to deny their roots? That's why I re asked the question to see if that shone any light on the matter.

    "...hardly any of us would claim this identity, and most will even argue that we're NOT Afghans; we're just Pashtun."

    Again Pashtun = Afghan. It's just a different word. I think by saying you're not Afghan you mean to say you're not from Afghanistan.

    Furthermore, no one is forcibally telling you guys who you are. It's more like a reminder of where your origins come from. I don't think anyone here can claim that Pashtuns are NOT native to Afghanistan. No matter where in the world you are, the Pashtun race was in Afghanistan or in earlier times, Khoroson, Aryana w.e it was called. Pakistan was not part of this. At least the parts NOT in the Durrand line. Thus its just pure fact, that All Pashtuns did come from Afghanistan at one point. The Pakistani Pashtuns now are just Afghans who live in Pakistan. Im glad you have Pakistani Pride and for some reason refuse to atleast admit to the fact that you're family was once Afghan. Which is why on your ID and such you are still considered Afghans.

    However by living in Pakistan I suppose these people have adopted some Pakistani culture and thus can't really be called True Afghans. So I wouldn't necessarily see a Pakistani Pashtun and be like OH you're Afghan! However their clothing and rituals are must more similar to the people of Afghanistan. Not those in Pakistan.

    "Their ethnicity tells me more about them than does their nationality."

    You'r culture and ethnicity is Afghan. What makes you YOU is your culture and ethnic roots. So are you not more Afghan than you are Pakistani? Thus it wouldn't be WRONG to call yourself Afghan. It would help people understand more about you than saying you're Pakistani, as like you said, the nationality doesn't say much about you.

    But if you prefer to be called a Pakistani, by all means that's your own choice. If you feel more connected and devoted to the country of Pakistan, rather than Afghanistan, then that's totally your call. It's your identity, you know who you are better than anyone.

    Again I don't know any Pakistani Pashtuns so I can't really talk to them. However to get a true census, you would have to speak to a large amount of people. Not just the people around you, your friends and family. No you'd have to ask hundreds of people. It's just to be fair, you can't speak for others.

    Finally, I can't say its true that Afghan is no longer an ethnicity. In Afghanistan, people do refer to the Pashtuns as Afghan. For example if a fellow afghan asked me what my Pashtun friend was, If I said Afghan, they would understand that they're Pashtun. To people outside of the country we all refer to ourselves as Afghans, because lets face it, they wont even know the difference between Tajiks, Uzbeks, Pashtuns etc.

    And just as a side note. Sometime when I meet Pakistani people and tell them Im Afghan. They mention to me "Oh my grandfather is a Pashtun" because they understand that Pashtuns are Afghans. They bring that up because they feel they can connect to me in that way.

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    1. Mariam guley, this is starting to become very circular (this seems natural to this whole "there's no such thing as a Pakistani Pashtun" debate, so no surprise here). I understand your argument, but it looks like you are not understanding what I'm trying to say (forgive me if I'm wrong).

      Example:

      QUOTE: "You'r culture and ethnicity is Afghan. What makes you YOU is your culture and ethnic roots. So are you not more Afghan than you are Pakistani? Thus it wouldn't be WRONG to call yourself Afghan. It would help people understand more about you than saying you're Pakistani, as like you said, the nationality doesn't say much about you."

      Like I said, "Afghan" and "Pashtun," according to nationalists and most Afghans (i.e., Pashtuns of Afghanistan) are synonymous terms. If that's indeed the case, then if I say "I'm Pashtun," should that not answer your question if who I am *ethnically*? When I say I'm "Afghan," you can't be certain if I mean that I'm Afghan ethnically or nationally, correct? So "Pashtun" is more specific and says more about who I am than does "Afghan." This was not the case centuries ago, but it's the case today. Put me (a Pakistani Pashtun) and a Tajik in a room with someone who cares about people's ethnicities, and have this person ask us, "So, how do you folks identify yourself as?" Suppose I say, "I'm Afghan," and suppose the Tajik also says she is Afghan. Then what? Would we not have to be more specific such that I go, "I'm Pashtun" and the Tajik would go, "I'm Tajik?" -- just so that the questioner is clear on the fact that I'm a Pakistani Pashtun (Pashtun from Pakistan) and the Tajik is an Afghan Tajik (Tajik from Afghanistan), and simply saying we're Afghans is not enough: because it doesn't answer the question of who we are ethnically, since the Tajik is not ethnically Afghan; she is ethnically Tajik and nationally Afghan, and I'm ethnically Pashtun and nationally Pakistani.

      Again: Pakistani is a *national* identity; it's not an ethnic identity. This is one thing most Afghans (Pashtuns from Afghanistan as well as Pashtun nationalists of Pakistan) don't want to understand. The circumstances of Pakistani Pashtuns and Afghan Pashtuns (I know, I know - to nationalists, this "Afghan Pashtun" is repetitive and laughable, but we just have to think about it for a minute to get that this is a real identity -- and it's the identity of the Pashtuns in Afghanistan) are NOT the same as the circumstances of the Pashtuns of Pakistan.

      (to be ctd)

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    2. (continuation)
      When you say, "Aren't you more Afghan than you are Pakistani?" you suggest not to have understood much of what I've been saying in the last comments as well as in the above post. Because, again, I'm a PASHTUN, yes, but I'm a Pakistani as well. When I say I'm a Pakistani, I mean that I'm *from* Pakistan--because that's the fact.

      And, as you've said in one of your comments above, Pakistani Pashtuns are more close to Desi culture than they are to "Afghan" culture. This is very true. Hence, I'm more a Pakistani than I'm a Pashtun in terms of *culture*.

      But *once upon a time in a distant past*, yes, all Pashtuns were Afghans; all Pashtuns were in Afghanistan. Until the demarcation of the Durand Line, this stopped being the case, and today, we Pashtuns of Pakistan say, "We were once upon a time a part of Afghanistan; today, realistically, we are in Pakistan. This will be the case until and unless Pakistan ceases to exist."

      Does that clarify my thoughts to an extent? Understand that no one's denying that we were once Afghans and that we were once a part of Afghanistan. But we haven't moved from where we have always been (well, except for the Yusufzais and some other tribes who left Kabul, moved to Swat and other Pashtun areas of today's Pakistan, slaughtered the people who were originally there and forced the few survivors out of the land, and claimed the land as their own - back in the 16th, 17th centuries or so).

      It's just that *today*, things are different, so it makes perfect sense for us to attach ourselves to Pakistan more than to Afghanistan. After all, who sold us to Pakistan, right? :) Who signed the Durand Line "treaty," right? :)

      I think your/the Pashtun nationalists' point hits something close to this: all humans are originally from Africa, so we should all move there and deny any loyalties to the "nations" we have formed or are now a part of. Understand that, yes, knowing our history is important and it not knowing it prevents us from improving our lives and not repeating the mistakes we've made (yeah, rrright - every nation has always repeated its own mistakes despite knowing its history), but history is sometimes just that -- history. It's in the past. We can't deny the present. We shouldn't be living in the past and mourning over what happened in the past.

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    3. What about Waziristan ?Are they not Pakistanis?Pak Arm Forces are attacking and killing us every day.....Why?Because they considered us afghans rather than Pakistanis

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  53. I think you misunderstood that, I said Pashtuns in Pakistan are more related to AFGHAN culture rather than desi. Maybe their culture has been affected a bit by desi culture. But they are still very different from the majority of people in Pakistan. When you wear your traditional Afghan clothes and if you guys still follow Pakhtunwali that is all Afghan culture.

    Your point about the tajik and Pashtun is understandable and a good point. What I have to say towards that is even though we all have a different ethnicity in Afghanistan. Our general culture and way of living is actually VERY similar. A Tajik in Afghanistan is very different than those in Tajikstan. The Tajik and Pashtun cultures, including uzbek, hazara, turk, etc. are all quite similar when living under one Nation. Yes we have our differences, but generally we are similar. So to say I am Tajik, Hazara, Uzbek, or Pashtun doesn't really make much of a difference in our everyday living in Afghanistan. Besides some social class and bloodline ordeals.

    That treaty was meant for a certain amount of time. That land is supposed to be back within Afghanistan's borders. When the Durrand line treaty was signed, there was no such thing as Pakistan anyways. So no one sold you to Pakistan.

    No I understand what you're saying. I get it. Perhaps in time my grand kids will start calling themselves Canadian instead of Afghan because perhaps by then they'll be much more adapted to Canadian culture. The same goes with you guys, you have been within Pakistan for so long that you're more connected with Pakistan and feel a devotion towards it. I'm not trying to sit here and tell you you should call yourselves Afghan. I'm simply saying you can't deny that that is what your culture is, and that's what you follow. Unless you've adapted to Pakistani or Desi culture, than that's a different story.

    I think its wrong to FORCE someone to say, yes Im Afghan. If you don't feel pride and honour towards a country, why in the world would I want you to claim it as your own. I wouldn't want someone like that to be Afghan anyways. Afghans are VERY nationalist people. We have such Pride in our roots, culture and people. If you don't feel that way, then obviously you don't even deserve to call yourself an Afghan.

    No if that were the case we'd all be Africans. There is much more to identity. Genetically and culturally, Pashtuns of Pakistan are more related to Afghans than Pakistanis. That is the case. Thousands of years from now, if the Pashtun people mix with people of Desi or Pakistani culture (as in have mixed babies) eventually these Pashtuns will be more related to Pakistan and its citizens. For now though, Pashtuns of Pakistan are like the Pashtuns and people of Afghanistan.

    It's like Palestine and Israel. There's no such thing as Palestine according to Israel. The land was taken over by Israelis. So should the Palestinians eventually start calling themselves Israeli? This is very similar to the Durrand line situation. No the land wasn't taken over, it was signed over for a certain number of years. That doesn't make much of a difference though. What was once one country is now part of a different country. Palestinians however would never EVER call themselves Israelis.

    Neverthelss, Pashtuns are native to Afghanistan as we have agreed. We can't say that Pakistani people are also Pashtuns. That's changing the identity of the whole race. Pashtuns are Afghans and that is that. Pakistani Pashtuns are Pashtuns that now live in Pakistan, have been born and raised there for generations, so yes they are Pakistani now, but Afghanistan is and always will be the true identity of Pashtuns.

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    1. Mariam guley, I thank you for your insight! It's always delightful to have a conversation with someone who has a different opinion and can respond respectfully.

      It looks like I may have to repeat much of what I've already said, though, and repetitions aren't a sign of a great discussion, so pardon me from wishing not to reply any further. Some of your remarks still suggest you didn't get my point(s), which may not be your fault, since it's quite possible I have not been successful in expressing myself eloquently.

      I am, however, currently writing on this issue (again)--only, this time, it's providing the perspective of the average Pakistani Pashtun, who, as I've said here and elsewhere, actually does not want to separate from Pakistan, loves Pakistan, and does not want to rejoin Afghanistan. I won't discuss whether this is good or bad, since that's not a point I want to make, but I do want our fellow Pashtun nationalists and Pashtuns of Afghanistan, both groups of whom have completely closed their minds to understanding the Pakistani Pashtun perspective, to at least make an effort to understand and not dismiss the Pakistani Pashtuns as "less Pashtun" than the Pashtuns of Afghanistan.

      I'll write a comment here when the entry is posted on my blog so you may read and respond if you would like.

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  54. Aha I could say the same. However I never mentioned that they should join Afghanistan. IN fact I think its better to keep it separated. I don't mean this in a rude manner, but if they became one, The Pashtuns in Pakistan would bring over a lot of Pakistani (desi) culture. Not that this culture is bad or anything, but everyone wants to preserve their own culture.

    Just something to provoke some thoughts: If these Pashtuns are taking in and being effected by Desi culture (thus mixing their cultural practices and perhaps taking on new ones) would that not make you Less of a Pashtun? Since you wouldn't be following the true ways of a Pashtun? Or if not less, just not a PURE Pashtun for lack of better words?

    By "you" I don't mean yourself, just people in general. Also this is targeted at Pashtuns or people in any country or culture not just Pakistan. Moving aside from the main topic a bit, but its an interesting question. If we mix cultures , does that make us less of a pure Afghan, Pakistani, Arab etc ?

    (I personally haven't thought of an opinion to this myself) lol

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  55. Part 1st
    Qrrtugai khor! You have just selected a vulgar model of nationalism and arbitrarily made a case to be used as a punching bag against genuine nationalist demands of Pashtuns trapped inside a structure/arrangement called as Pakistan. You have just made your whole case on brute assumption like ‘all or most Pashtuns love Pakistan out of their free will’ or ‘they will die for Pakistan’ etc.
    First of all you must know that Pakistan isn't the name of some land, otherwise Bangladesh would still carry the name Pakistan with it like North and South Korea.
    The next thing one must think over is the genesis of Pakistan. We all must know that we Pashtuns were not some free floating Khanbadosh (gypsies) whom Pakistan granted a piece of land which we didn't have before; we have been on this land since millennia.
    Pashtuns’ forced inclusion in this structure is the result of Ranjit Singh's occupation of Peshawar Valley, the winter capital of Afghanistan, and the rest of the vast land from Afghanistan to be made a part of British India by the far more technologically advanced British occupiers. We also must know that the words India and British India have quite different meanings.
    Keeping these things in view one could try to justify why a country purported to be fortress of Islam annexed a stolen land of another Muslim State whose very pioneers were the cause of the creation of Pakistan inside India.
    1) The question you have raised against your imagined nationalist are trivial ones in my view, like you feel upset when someone calls Pakistan as porkistan etc.

    2) Now read the second paragraph:
    “That's not to deny all the crimes that Pakistan has committed -- against the Pashtuns, the Balochis, (the Sindhis?,) the Bengalis, the Kashmiris, and God knows who else. But which country hasn't done the same to its own peoples?”

    Now what sort of logic is this? Are you justifying Pakistan’s atrocities on oppressed nations because some other countries also did the same?
    3) Read:
    “The average Pakistani's not the one responsible for what Pakistan does; it's the officials, the leader, the army. And what reason do I have to hate a country for what its leaders are doing?”

    If the average Pakistani becomes indifferent to my sufferings I have no obligation to call him my brother. While the reality is that the same average Pakistani/Punjabi provides moral justification for the crimes committed by the State. Just recall the history of East Bengal where only Sindhis, Pashtuns and Baloch nationalists opposed Punjabi Army’s unprecedented atrocities against Bengali nation. So in other words this country or arrangement is to be blamed in which one group tries to maintain its hegemony over other historic nations.

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  56. 4) “But! While I say here that the army, in general, has done a lot of bad for Pashtuns, those IN Pakistan, particularly in Swat, actually love the army and support it fully.”

    This is a blatant lie which even Punjabi army can’t maintain. On the next 14 August after the demise of ISI sponsored Taliban rule people of were forced to raise Paki flags on their shops and buildings. One also must know that the Nifaz Shariat drama was played to cover Pakistani state’s inefficiency when it took over Swat in 1970.

    5)” If these Pakistan-bashing Pashtuns think that this is Pashtun nationalism, then screw it. But fortunately, there's nothing in Pashtun nationalism or nationalism in general that supports or promotes hatred or animosity towards other ethnic/national/religious/tribal groups”

    The main issue is not one nation’s bias against other nation or nations but rather Pakistan/Punjab’s occupation of those stolen land which didn’t belong to India (while it was India to be partitioned) is the main issue. Pashtun land was forcibly merged into this fake Pakistani structure while Baloch’s historic land was occupied in 1948 along with part of Kashmiri land.

    6)” You see, Pakistan's existence is a reality, whether we like it or not”

    But so was British occupation of India a reality. Such realities are very short lived and transient which we saw in the case of Yugoslavia, Czechoslovakia and USSR and also Pakistan which once got divided into two in 1871.

    7) “There are many Pakistanis, both Pashtun or non-Pashtun, who are fighting so hard, with so much passion, so much sincerity, so much dedication to enhance Pakistan's image, to ensure that justice is brought in Pakistan, calling for peace and a proper implementation of law. “

    Had it been so you wouldn’t see Pakistan in such a pathetic state without any apparent reason for its so much failure despite receiving billions of dollars from the west throughout its existence and despite remaining a dominion of the British till 1956.

    8)” People need a place to call their nation, their country, their history, their pride.”

    We don’t need Pakistan to be identified with, we were not some gypsies. We had our own historic motherland which gave us our identity and which the British took away from us, we don’t need any fake identity.

    9) “In gaining your own rights, no one -- and I mean, NO one, not even Pashtuns -- should deny others' their rights, be they the Punjabis, our assumed gods. If we're gonna infringe on the rights of others, then may we never be successful in getting our own. Aameen.”

    LOL. Strange logic. How could Pashtuns deny othesr their rights when they themselves don’t have theirs?

    10) “officially no longer have any respect left for anyone who calls Pakistan "Fuckistan" or "Porkistan" no matter how "highly" educated she/he might be, no matter what a staunch well-wisher of Pashtuns she/he is, no matter how much she/he claims to be a humanitarian or a socialist or a nationalist.”

    This is redundant.

    11) “My point? (Most) Pashtun nationalists take the wrong approach in making their point: They bash the country that the people they claim to be fighting/seeking independence for, the Pashtuns, love to death”.

    A very unsubstantiated and hollow claim!. Pashtun intelligentsia is one voiced over Pakistan/Punjab’s illegal and immoral control over their land and precious resources. The issue is Pakistani /Punjabi state has full and strict control over information and mass media and almost everything. To maintain that control it has created a monster agency called the ISI. Most people of Swat now hate Pakistan, Afridis, Momand, Wazir, Mahsud all have extreme hate for Pakistan and this hate is spreading rapidly.
    Apart from the above I will forward a genuine case for Pashtun, Baloch, Sindhi, Seraiki national right of self-determination and not any fake case on behalf of oppressed nation.

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  57. I'm a Pashtun from Afghanistan, parents from Qandahar and Jalalabad specifically, and personally must admit I have never understood some Pashtuns obsession w/ a united Pashtunistan. I understand the SENTIMENT behind it: culture, language, etc...but I don't understand the obstinancy behind it given that it will be the result of major upheavals on both side of the border.

    It's not simply a question of 'Pashtunistan', but a major destabilization and collapse of the entire region. We will have to go through major wars, instability, terrorist and criminal groups taking advantage of the situation, etc. for this to be realized. That's why I think it's unlikely and therefore a waste of time frankly.

    I think we'd be better off focusing on bringing development, aid, etc. to Pashtuns WITHIN the countries they're already in. Build schools, hospitals, roads, and markets. Supply water, medicine, school supplies, farming materials. Promote Pashto media, language, and art on both sides of the border. I think these are more realistic goals. Ultimately I think people on both sides of the border just want better lives...and it's is not necessary for them to be in the same nation. For example, English is spoken in England, Australia, Canada, United States...but no one is calling for one country.

    I'm not denying Pashtuns have been mistreated or deprived. I'm just saying I think it's better to tackle those challenges within a realistic framework or paradigm. I don't think we accomplish anything by dreaming of mythical Pashtunistan and the whole time none of the problems on the ground are actually being solved.

    That being said...as far as insulting Pakistan goes,I'd agree that insulting Pakistan is probably not the best way to go for Pashtuns in Pakistan...if only that insulting the country you live in is probably not gonna help the cause of developing, investing in and advancing the Pashtun regions.

    As an Afghan though, I must admit that we have an absolute hatred of Pakistan for the most part on our side of the border. It's not for racial, ethnic, linguistic reasons or even because of any kind of Pashtun nationalism...but because of what Pakistan has been DOING to us for the past 20 years. Afghans are simply fed up to be honest. We're tired, tired, tired of the sabotage, subterfuge, death, destruction, etc. that Pakistan is imposing on the Afghan nation for it's own interests.

    So frankly and bluntly speaking...my advice to Pakistani Pashtuns would be:great and dandy if you are a proud Pakistani. But DON'T try to indoctrinate us with pro-Pakistani views or expect us to support Pakistani interests. We're just NOT in the mood for it. We absolutely despise the Pakistani government, army and ISI...not interested in hearing their praises. We have no problem with India...sorry, but Afghans just don't care. That is a Pakistani issue and Pakistanis should not try to force us to take sides or question our Islam if we don't support the Pakistani position.

    Lastly Pakistani Pashtuns should not ever pull out the "Pashtun brother" card when it comes to Afghanistans political issues. Pakistani Pashtuns cannot have their cake and eat it too...They cannot say they are Pakistani, but then interfere in Afghan politics on our side of the border, often on behalf of Islamabad or the ISI, by citing shared Pashtun identity. If you're a Pakistani, then be a Pakistani and stay out of our internal Afghan political issues. Cultural, linguistic, developmental, and other non-political issues are all kosher. Political issues are where the line is drawn.

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  58. They don't consider(afghanistan) us part of them,no one is dying to join them, some might agree to join a seperate state formed from afghanistan n pakistan but joining afghanistan never they hate us and dont see us as pure as them. as far as kpk they'll never own it, afghanistan has still centuries to go to get stable once america is gone they,ll again be at each other throats. alta khowre de aao sirf ghrona um da aghai de umbarak she aao attak pore pakistan aghai de slogan mande de zanla zadh khushalai.

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  59. Qrratugai khore this ate up my long winded opinions twice...I hope not third time :).

    I enjoyed reading through the diverse opinions here. I tend to agree with your viewpoint more however. Most of the Pashtuns/Pakhtuns are more than ok with living in Pakistan. Even if they were not, there's not a whole lot that could be done now other than try to improve where they live. Redrawing borders and creating new countries would be a horrific experience, entailing humongous killings, mayhem and hoards of other dilemmas for the whole region. After all what good would it be if people join up with Afghanistan rather than Pakistan? Granted that Pashtuns have been treated most shabbily in Pakistan, however their plight is even worse in Afghanistan. Pakistan is blighted with the ugliness of corruption, nepotism, jingoistic religiosity due to policies enacted by charlatan leaders who could pass muster on the who's who list of history's worst scoundrels and rogues. People merely want to be able to live decent and normal lives, where they could look after themselves, their families and children. Utmost priority needs to be given to educating and enlightening the nation, as well as fighting off the atrocious corruption and nepotism that is the bane of society...would be greatly beneficial. And Mullah needs to be picked off from society as a fly from milk :)...TKhan.

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  60. Dair Aala.
    My view about Pakhtoons and Pakistan is very close to this.

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  61. Good to see some Pashtoons talking about this Anti-Pakistan issue,I being an Afghan Pashtoon,to be honest,really dont like Pakistan,by Pakistan WE mean the Pakistani establishment,the govt,ISI,Army and all those who prepare the policy of Afghanistan,not the people of Pakistan...I have many good friends of Pakistan here in UK,and when sometimes this Afg-Pak issues come in converstaion I blutanty tell them that I dont like Ur govt etc......Afghan,whether Pashtoons or Non-Pashtoons and Pashtoons in Pakistan have every legitimate reason to have trouble with Pakistani establishment...Because Pakistan has been destablizing Afghanistan from the last 30 years,and its not just a myth,its a bitter truth,many of my Pakistani brothers dont seem to understand this fact,they still think that Pakistan helped afghan refugees in the 80s,those were Pakistanis,not pakistani establishment..nd we afghans are still grateful to them,but if you study the afghan history from 1990 onwards,you will realize that had pakistan not interfere in Afghan issue,today Afghanistan would have been a peaceful,stable country but also you would not be seeing dead bodies of kids and women in Swat,peshawar or waziristan.....regarding Durand Line ,,none of the afghan govt ,not even the Taliban or afghan people accept this line,Its our legitimate claim on our land,and the nationalist pashtoons in Pakistan should understand that Punjabis are using them against india and Afghanistan,,,Punjabis themselves love their Indian punjabis nd Indians but tell the pashtoons to fight with Indians nd Afghans.....Pashtoon is one of the greatest nation in Asia,but we are broken,unless we are not united we will be suppressed,and those pakistanis pashoons who thinks that the conditions of Pashtoons in Pakistan is good, are mistaken,yes its a bit better then Afghanistan,but Pakistan which have never seen a civil war,still pashtoons there r in trouble,they r killed,they r talibanized,they r forced to forget their Pashto nd learn nd Speak Urdu....and those who think that Afghanistan will again b in trouble after 2014,I tell you its all propaganda of ISI and west becoz USA/NATO want to make a pretend to stay here for long time...The economy of Afghanistan is improving rapidly, the rich natural resources will make Afghanistan one of the richest country in Asia

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  62. I being an Afghan Pashtoon,along with many Afghans dont have any problem with Pakistani PEOPLE,but yes majority of us, including me hate pakistani establishments,and we have a legitimate reason...and I feel sorry for all those Pakistanis who never try to realize the truth,they still believe that Pakistan is the twin brother of Afghanistan,..I respect pakistani people but this is a truth that Pak Establishment has been trying day nd night to break afghanistan to make afghanistan their 5th state,to bleed Afg...and of course a true afghan can never tolerate this...its not about only Afghan,Punjabis r bleeding the Pashtoons there,I m surprised by some pashtoons who support punjabi govt,everyday you hear a dozens of kids nd women r killed in peshawar,swat,quetta,waziristan,taliban in KPK,terrorism in KPK...why only Pashtoons??...Its good that some pashtoons get benefited from Pakistan but what about other millions of pashtoons who suffer for the sins of ISI...why you people still dont open your eyes.....Pashtoon is one of the greatest nation in asian nd the world....but we are in trouble,on both side of durand line...unless we r not united we will b bleeding....and Afghans have every legitimate reason not to accept the durand line..none of the afghan govt have ever accepted this line as an international border of afg-pak,not even the pro-pakistani taliban.....and we know that Pakistan's interference from that last 30 years in Afghanistan is becoz of Durand line but still none of the Afghans govt or the people r going to accept this dark line...you may not b affected by this line,living somewhere in lahore or karachi but there r millions of Pashtoons who r affected by it...just visit any Afg-Pak border and you will see that who are the people on both sides.one family is divided into two by this durand line...and this a wrong impression and propaganda of west nd ISI that Afghanistan is going to get into the same troubles again after 2014,the west needs a pretend to stay here for long nd ISI of course is our enemy...Afghan economy is rapidly improving...the abundant natural resources of afghanistan can afghanistan one of the riches country in Asia...

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    1. I am Pakhtun but I am not afghan. I am Pakistani Pakhtun. I am a Great Pakhtun. My nationality is Pakistani. I don't need any other nationality.I am living in Germany with the help of Pakistani Nationality. I don't need even German Nationality. I can go to live any where in the world except israel with the help of Pakistani Nationality. Because one day I have to returned to my Homeland Pakistan. Because Pakistani Pakhtun cannot live abroad much due to cultural and religious problems. Pakistan is the Land of KhanS as I am Farman Khan Afridi. If some one kill me or my Pak Pakhtun in Pakistan. I will answer him or my government will answer. No external answer are allowed. So people of the world listen Mind your own businesses. Don't interfere. I Love a Christian of Pakistan more than an afghan muslim.they are my brothers. And what a funny Christians in Pakistan have no problems with muslims but problems with afghans. Hahaha Christians are happy in Pakistan. Because they are good. But afghaniatan pashtuns are threat to government. So all afghans including pashtuns, hezari,parci will be pushed out on July 2013 by the order of Habib Ullah Khan. I an so happy. In scha Allah. Bcz I want to see my Pakistan free of afghan pashtuns bcz they belong to afghanistan.

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  63. We don't need afghanistan. A poor land. We are Pakistqni Pakhtuns. Look our language is one URDU. Our culture is one.Everything is same.
    Even there are christian churches in Peshawar but they are safe. So whats more. I don't need any afghani pashtuns or hezara or parci in my country. You will have to go. I love muslims and christians in my country alot but I don't love(hate) afghanis. So leave we alone. A good news for afghanis who are living in Pakistan. July 2013 every single afghani have to leave Pakistan even who have Pakistani nationality. They will be recognizes according to NADRA illegal registration. This means that an afghan residing in Pakistan from 30 years they will leave. To clean and clear Pakistan from outsider refugees immigrants mahajor and other germs and dusts.

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    1. And What about America and NATO They will never leave you alone and What about MQM and other Punjabis.You talk about cleaning Pakistan First clean your mind Farman Khan From. Wazir of Miranshah

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    2. Dear oh dear, you are clearly not a pashtun. Our language is not urdu, it is pashto....if you cannot speak pashto then you are not a pashtun. The blood of an afghan pashtun is exactly the same as a pashtun from khyber pakhtunkhwa, just because the british put an invisible line through the pashtun nation, this does not mean that your race changes into something else. Not even a really stupid person would think that a manmade imaginary line would change your blood. Other races in pakistan share no blood with pashtuns at all. Wake up and stop living in a delusion. By the way, I am from swat and I can tell you for a fact that the majority of pashtuns in swat hate pakistan and want to break away from it but they will not say this our act until such a time where a clear chance arises to do so. Mark my words, when the time for a pukhtunistan is right, all the pashtuns who you think are proud to be pakistani will be first to fight for a united pashtun nation, my mum and dad have both just confirmed this for me. You are clearly somebody who lives and associates with punjabis, go and live with them then, we do ned someone like you in pukhtunistan.

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  64. Farman Khan You are a fake Pashtun I am Wazir from Miranshah .We know what Pakistani Bastards are?They kill innocent people for American dollars.you think that afghanis are not given ID cards You will not believe that we are also not given ID cards easily Why?Because they doenot considered us Pakistanis.We don't need your type of Fake Pashtoons

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  65. Pakistan is not a National Identity, Pakistan is an Ideological identity based on Islam and Two Nation Theory. Do not call it a national identity, if ever Pakistan were a national identity, we would have no problems with it. Read here on National and Ideological Identities and the rootcause of hatred against Panjabis and Pakistan
    http://www.scribd.com/doc/170515741/Pashtun-Nationalism-VS-Islamism

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    1. Thanks for your opinion, Umar Daud, but obviously, I disagree - Pakistani *is* a national identity. There are over 90 million people in Pakistan, and for them all, it's a national identity. It's okay if you don't agree.

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    2. How can it be a nation identity when parts were taken from afghanistan and the rest was taken from india? No blood is shared between the two. Wake up and stop being so stupidly delusional.

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  66. I dont understand why pushtoons would say that because it breaks my heart all my friends say they love pakistan and i never heard anything like this. If pushtoons had a problem they would have been gone back to afghanistan but it is the afghanis who try to make trouble they live in pakistan work in pakistan eat in pakistan and still they teach anti pakistani views to children what has afghanistan done for u ? Nothing it hasent saved u from the white man from invading ur land and raping ur women. Pakistan has given lot of government scholarships to afghani students and that makes less room for our own pakistani students and ultimately its not a aghanis fault they lack formal education. There are so many afghani refugees in pakistan and there is no other in any country still you hate pakistan. Why are u guys such traitors to your own muslim ummah ? Any ways haj mubarak to all of muslim ummah :)

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    1. Thanks for your comment, Ann.

      A few corrections:
      - it's not "Afghani" - it's Afghan :) Afghani is the currency of Afghanistan. The people are called Afghans.
      - You said: "If pushtoons had a problem they would have been gone back to afghanistan but it is the afghanis who try to make trouble they live in pakistan work in pakistan eat in pakistan and still they teach anti pakistani views to children what has afghanistan done for u?"

      Well, that's not quite how politics works. It's not like people get to "go" to where they might be "from" - Pashtuns have always been where they are right now (for the last few centuries, at least; originally, most of the people of the Northwest are from Kandahar/Kabul, Afghanistan, and migration is more complicated than many of us understand).

      - Pakistan is a new country, remember that. It was created only in 1947. Pashtuns have been where they are today much, much before 1947.

      - Please don't bring in the whole "Muslim ummah" into this conversation. This isn't about Islam. This is about politics. We Pashtuns are Muslims, too, and yet, when Pakistanis and other Muslims hate on us, kill us, attack us, oppress us, no one bothers to ask what you're asking (i.e., the "your own Muslim ummah" stuff). Let's not be selective.

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    2. I am a pashtun from swat and it may be hard for you to swallow but the majority of pashtuns in khyber pakhtunkhwa hate or strongly dislike the other races in pakistan. For those that disagree, you clearly don't want to face reality because there would be no need for articles like this if there wasn't such a big issue. As for you stating that we should go back to afghanistan, this evidently shows your lack of understanding on the matter. The land that we live on is called khyber pukhtunkhwa, this has always been our land even when we were part of afghanistan, this land never belonged to pakistan. When the british split afghanistan, they split the land, and the people remained on the land. You couldn't honestly believe that we were forced out of other parts of afghanistan and made to live in khyber pukhtunkhwa. we are not going to abandon our beautiful land and live in other parts of afghanistan and let our centuries old land be taken over by dirty punjabis who have no claim on the land...ABSOLUTELY NOT !!! The pashtun land along with the pashtun people needs to be returned back to afghanistan just as the original durand treaty stated. We are not your people, we are full pashtun by blood and that makes us ethnic afghans. Do not even presume that our pashtun land belongs to you.

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