I had no idea, thanks for letting us know :) I've been told I look Pathan when I dress up in shalwar kameez, but I guess really they should say I look Pashtun :P
Hi, Becky Jaan! Glad you found the post informative! I'mna have to request some photos of you in Shalwar Kameez now ;) And, yes, they should've said Pashtun, not Pathan, lol. But in "normal" life, that often leads to half-annoying political debates on Afghanistan/Pakistan affairs, and who wants to deal with them after giving a simple comment like, "You look Pathan in shalwaar/kameez," eh? lol.
I guess a lot of people also aren't aware of the difference. Personally I'd never heard about Pashtun's before I came across your blog, my ex-bf always referred to Pathans, so I don't know. http://beckyskaleidoscope.blogspot.com/2010/10/shalwar-kameez.html Pictures in that blog post ;)
My husband's recent male ancestors on both sides of the family are also "Gangetic Pathans" or Pashtoons who settled along the Ganges river in India and then later went to Pakistan after partition. They are connected to Badakshan in Afghanistan, but only speak Urdu and are extremely Indianized and have a tride and true muhajir identity and life style.
They do romanticize their Pashtoon blood and pride themselves on being fair. But I noticed that they don't feel very close to local Pakistani Pashtoons and take a very muhajir view on Pashtoon locals and their political issues. My sister in law has called someone a "dumb Pathan" in front of me, for example.
It reminds me of in the USA we white Americans often have a few drops of Native American (Red Indian) blood and we romanticize it to high heaven but we aren't concerned with modern indigenous peoples' issues and have our own stereotypes about modern Native American communities (like that they are drunkards, etc).
Funny how people can be like that.
Hahaha when I go to Pakistan also the Pashtoon shopkeepers ask me something "zamazamazama Pashtoon day" or some such thing (have no idea what it could really be) and I realized they were asking me if I was a Pashtoona. I do speak Urdu and they thought I was being demure or maybe a snob for not switching into Pashto with them infront of my in-laws. I wish I could speak Pashto because then I could get better bargains probably!!!
Hellllo, LuckyFatima Jaan! Welcome to my blog; glad to hear you like it around here! I try, lol.
Yeah, funny stuff for sure! I like the comparison you made. It's definitely similar. I've met lotsa folks around here who, when they find out or hear that I'm Pashtun, tell me, "My great-grandfather was Pathan, too!" They say it with pride, actually. But, like the Whites enjoying claiming they have Native American blood in them, they know close to nothing about what's going on with Pashtuns today.
Certainly true that knowing Pashto would grant you better bargains in Pashtun shops ;) I'm willing to teach ya if you wants to learn! I could open up a lesson a day or something. Cool?
And the whole being fair thing -- ugh! Many I know do that, too :S What a shallow reason to be proud of your ancestry for!
By the way, I got your question. Will answer it tomorrow, inshaAllah, k?
Omg I sooo love the whole pashtun culture! I wish I were pashtun :( I hope to learn pashto someday, the food must be great too aww I really enjoy reading your blog posts!
Yep, that's one of the most common moments many of us refer to ourselves as "Pathans" -- and speaking in Urdu doesn't go so well with the Pukhtun nationalists :p
There is lots of difference between speaking Pashto and being Pashtun. Not everyone who speaks Pashto may be a Pashtun till he applies Pashtu in his life, simply speaking Pashto and doing Pashto are two different things. A Pashtun who is practically not loyal, tells lie, he is coward,involved in unethical activities, have no respect for his elders and no love for his youngsters, no respect for woman etc etc is not a Pashtun if he even belongs to a Pahtun family. These and many others are the qualities required to be a Pashtun and if all such qualities are found in you even if you are from some other tribe you are a Pashtun by nature. This is what I think as a Pashtun " Be a Pashtun by nature and conduct and not by language only"
I disagree with what it means to be Pashtun. It's not just Pashtuns who aren't supposed to be cowards, tell lies, etc. - all humans aren't supposed to do that. So Pashtuns who do that aren't "non-Pashtuns" or true Pashtuns; they're just bad humans. Period.
We all have different ideas of what it means to be Pashtuns. I prefer my idea :) It's less exclusive, less cruel, less vindictive. There's nothing special about being Pashtun, so it's not like it's a privilege. No one chooses which race or ethnicity they're going to be born in; it's just where we end up being born in. You don't get to tell someone else what they are just because of a narrow list of guidelines.
For the love of God, dude, Pakhtun and Pashtun are synonyms! The term is used to describe an ethnic group indigenous to Afghanistan and northern Pakistan. And "Afghan" is a nationality. The term is an Arabic word and was used to describe only Pashtuns back in the day, but now it's a nationality that includes Tajiks, Hazaras, Uzbeks, and Baloch who live in Afghanistan as well as Afghan Pashtuns. Get it right.
Haider, thank you for reading and responding - but your comment was way too offensive, too full of hatred, and an excellent reflection of your own inferiority complex that you accuse all Muhajirs and Indian Muslims of. Pashtuns come in all forms and sizes, so I'm not sure how you expect all Pashtuns to look alike and that that's why it's so obvious to tell Pashtuns from others.
Also, who even claimed that Muhajirs are Pashtuns anyway? But if some Muhajirs had some Pashtun blood in them and wanted to identify as Pashtun, they have EVERY right to identify as such because that Pashtun blood in them, no matter how many drops, isn't going away, and you don't get to take that away from them. Neither do you get to tell someone else whether they're X, Y, Z, or something else.
Didn't get a chance to read Haider's comment, but I actually feel really flattered whenever Pakistani Punjabis or Indians claim Pashtun ancestry. For example, I knew an Indian girl from Rajasthan who said she had Pashtun roots, and wanted to be my friend just because I was Pashtun and she wanted to see what her ancestors were like. Her family treated me so well! I thought it was the sweetest thing ever. If people wish to associate with you, you must be doing something right!
Yeah - Pashtuns are interestingly enough so exoticized and mystified in Pakistan that it's not uncommon to hear South Asians claiming to have Pashtun grandparents/roots, etc. And they probably do for real, who knows, and I don't think it matters whether they do or not. They have no issue claiming Pashtunness, but when it comes to treating Pashtuns with respect and like normal humans, many of them have got some serious issues.
That's cause Pashtuns ruled over large parts of northern India centuries ago and many settled down and married local women, so it shouldn't be surprising -men like sex and they will have it with any race of women.
Also, I think even though Pashtuns are subjected to negative stereotypes and ill treated at time, but at the same time they're also glorified and put on a pedestal by the same people - it's kinda like how we treat Afridi, he's ridiculed a lot but also treated as a demigod by the same people.
One more thing is that, Pashtuns come off as very proud people, sometimes a tad bit arrogant, and that's why many people get put off by that, because you get the feeling you're being patronized -that's just my experience.
Pashtuns also seem like emotional people, you say good thiings about them, they get all touchy-feely but if you say the wrong thing, it offends them and you're dead beef, so being friends with the Pashtun is unpredictable, you have to tread carefully -that is just my impression/generalizations based off my interactions with Pashtuns.
Ur doing great work I love it,,,, i am pakhton from nangharhar, and I love the name of ur blog nice pakhto name...romantic name ,,,great job keep it up
Wow, I learned something new today=D I'm gonna discuss this with my dad..
ReplyDeleteINSIGHTFUL! :)
ReplyDeleteI had no idea, thanks for letting us know :) I've been told I look Pathan when I dress up in shalwar kameez, but I guess really they should say I look Pashtun :P
ReplyDeleteHi, Becky Jaan!
ReplyDeleteGlad you found the post informative!
I'mna have to request some photos of you in Shalwar Kameez now ;) And, yes, they should've said Pashtun, not Pathan, lol. But in "normal" life, that often leads to half-annoying political debates on Afghanistan/Pakistan affairs, and who wants to deal with them after giving a simple comment like, "You look Pathan in shalwaar/kameez," eh? lol.
I guess a lot of people also aren't aware of the difference. Personally I'd never heard about Pashtun's before I came across your blog, my ex-bf always referred to Pathans, so I don't know.
ReplyDeletehttp://beckyskaleidoscope.blogspot.com/2010/10/shalwar-kameez.html Pictures in that blog post ;)
My husband's recent male ancestors on both sides of the family are also "Gangetic Pathans" or Pashtoons who settled along the Ganges river in India and then later went to Pakistan after partition. They are connected to Badakshan in Afghanistan, but only speak Urdu and are extremely Indianized and have a tride and true muhajir identity and life style.
ReplyDeleteThey do romanticize their Pashtoon blood and pride themselves on being fair. But I noticed that they don't feel very close to local Pakistani Pashtoons and take a very muhajir view on Pashtoon locals and their political issues. My sister in law has called someone a "dumb Pathan" in front of me, for example.
It reminds me of in the USA we white Americans often have a few drops of Native American (Red Indian) blood and we romanticize it to high heaven but we aren't concerned with modern indigenous peoples' issues and have our own stereotypes about modern Native American communities (like that they are drunkards, etc).
Funny how people can be like that.
Hahaha when I go to Pakistan also the Pashtoon shopkeepers ask me something "zamazamazama Pashtoon day" or some such thing (have no idea what it could really be) and I realized they were asking me if I was a Pashtoona. I do speak Urdu and they thought I was being demure or maybe a snob for not switching into Pashto with them infront of my in-laws. I wish I could speak Pashto because then I could get better bargains probably!!!
I love your blog, by the way.
Hellllo, LuckyFatima Jaan!
ReplyDeleteWelcome to my blog; glad to hear you like it around here! I try, lol.
Yeah, funny stuff for sure! I like the comparison you made. It's definitely similar. I've met lotsa folks around here who, when they find out or hear that I'm Pashtun, tell me, "My great-grandfather was Pathan, too!" They say it with pride, actually. But, like the Whites enjoying claiming they have Native American blood in them, they know close to nothing about what's going on with Pashtuns today.
Certainly true that knowing Pashto would grant you better bargains in Pashtun shops ;) I'm willing to teach ya if you wants to learn! I could open up a lesson a day or something. Cool?
And the whole being fair thing -- ugh! Many I know do that, too :S What a shallow reason to be proud of your ancestry for!
By the way, I got your question. Will answer it tomorrow, inshaAllah, k?
Beckyyyy - I apologize for skipping your comment Just saw it! :O
ReplyDeleteOOOoh, I saw the pic, and I love it! More there, jaan.
Sure if you get a chance you could post some simple Pashto language lessons :-)
ReplyDeleteSure thing, Fatima Jaan!
ReplyDeleteOmg I sooo love the whole pashtun culture! I wish I were pashtun :( I hope to learn pashto someday, the food must be great too aww I really enjoy reading your blog posts!
ReplyDeleteAwww! :D Thank you! I'm honored you've joined me here!
ReplyDeleteYes, the food is delicious :p 'Course it is! You give me an idea for posting some Afghan/Pashtun recipes, hah! Will do so soon, inshaAllah.
Sanga aye? :P
ReplyDeleteOMG PLEASE do that! I would love toooooooooo finally cook pashto-style dishes, lately I've become addicted to paneer :|
LOL. Will do, zarrgiya!
ReplyDeletewell something new i think but we say pathan when speaking in urdu and pashtun when speaking in pashto :D
ReplyDeletePa khair, ShahMufc! Thanks for dropping by! :)
ReplyDeleteYep, that's one of the most common moments many of us refer to ourselves as "Pathans" -- and speaking in Urdu doesn't go so well with the Pukhtun nationalists :p
The ExPlaiNation Is WroNg
ReplyDeleteYou're welcome to correct us, Amir Khana! Thanks!
DeleteThere is lots of difference between speaking Pashto and being Pashtun. Not everyone who speaks Pashto may be a Pashtun till he applies Pashtu in his life, simply speaking Pashto and doing Pashto are two different things.
ReplyDeleteA Pashtun who is practically not loyal, tells lie, he is coward,involved in unethical activities, have no respect for his elders and no love for his youngsters, no respect for woman etc etc is not a Pashtun if he even belongs to a Pahtun family.
These and many others are the qualities required to be a Pashtun and if all such qualities are found in you even if you are from some other tribe you are a Pashtun by nature.
This is what I think as a Pashtun " Be a Pashtun by nature and conduct and not by language only"
Thanks for your perspective, Tariq!
DeleteI disagree with what it means to be Pashtun. It's not just Pashtuns who aren't supposed to be cowards, tell lies, etc. - all humans aren't supposed to do that. So Pashtuns who do that aren't "non-Pashtuns" or true Pashtuns; they're just bad humans. Period.
We all have different ideas of what it means to be Pashtuns. I prefer my idea :) It's less exclusive, less cruel, less vindictive. There's nothing special about being Pashtun, so it's not like it's a privilege. No one chooses which race or ethnicity they're going to be born in; it's just where we end up being born in. You don't get to tell someone else what they are just because of a narrow list of guidelines.
I am Ghori of Mohmand tribe, my forefathers migrated from Jalalabad, Afghanistan to India. I am Pashtun or Pakhtun????
ReplyDeleteThanks for dropping by, ROE!
DeleteAs the above post says, "Pashtun" and "Pakhtun" are the same thing.
afghan= belongs to afghanistan
ReplyDeletepathan=called in urdu
pukhtun=belongs to pakistani
this is the real point.
For the love of God, dude, Pakhtun and Pashtun are synonyms! The term is used to describe an ethnic group indigenous to Afghanistan and northern Pakistan. And "Afghan" is a nationality. The term is an Arabic word and was used to describe only Pashtuns back in the day, but now it's a nationality that includes Tajiks, Hazaras, Uzbeks, and Baloch who live in Afghanistan as well as Afghan Pashtuns. Get it right.
DeleteAnonymous, thank you! I've been saying that over and over like a parrot and hell if anyone actually gets it! So tired of explaining it.
DeleteThis comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
ReplyDeleteHaider, thank you for reading and responding - but your comment was way too offensive, too full of hatred, and an excellent reflection of your own inferiority complex that you accuse all Muhajirs and Indian Muslims of. Pashtuns come in all forms and sizes, so I'm not sure how you expect all Pashtuns to look alike and that that's why it's so obvious to tell Pashtuns from others.
DeleteAlso, who even claimed that Muhajirs are Pashtuns anyway? But if some Muhajirs had some Pashtun blood in them and wanted to identify as Pashtun, they have EVERY right to identify as such because that Pashtun blood in them, no matter how many drops, isn't going away, and you don't get to take that away from them. Neither do you get to tell someone else whether they're X, Y, Z, or something else.
Didn't get a chance to read Haider's comment, but I actually feel really flattered whenever Pakistani Punjabis or Indians claim Pashtun ancestry. For example, I knew an Indian girl from Rajasthan who said she had Pashtun roots, and wanted to be my friend just because I was Pashtun and she wanted to see what her ancestors were like. Her family treated me so well! I thought it was the sweetest thing ever. If people wish to associate with you, you must be doing something right!
DeleteYeah - Pashtuns are interestingly enough so exoticized and mystified in Pakistan that it's not uncommon to hear South Asians claiming to have Pashtun grandparents/roots, etc. And they probably do for real, who knows, and I don't think it matters whether they do or not. They have no issue claiming Pashtunness, but when it comes to treating Pashtuns with respect and like normal humans, many of them have got some serious issues.
DeleteThat's cause Pashtuns ruled over large parts of northern India centuries ago and many settled down and married local women, so it shouldn't be surprising -men like sex and they will have it with any race of women.
DeleteAlso, I think even though Pashtuns are subjected to negative stereotypes and ill treated at time, but at the same time they're also glorified and put on a pedestal by the same people - it's kinda like how we treat Afridi, he's ridiculed a lot but also treated as a demigod by the same people.
One more thing is that, Pashtuns come off as very proud people, sometimes a tad bit arrogant, and that's why many people get put off by that, because you get the feeling you're being patronized -that's just my experience.
Pashtuns also seem like emotional people, you say good thiings about them, they get all touchy-feely but if you say the wrong thing, it offends them and you're dead beef, so being friends with the Pashtun is unpredictable, you have to tread carefully -that is just my impression/generalizations based off my interactions with Pashtuns.
Ur doing great work I love it,,,, i am pakhton from nangharhar, and I love the name of ur blog nice pakhto name...romantic name ,,,great job keep it up
ReplyDeleteManana, Roshaana :)
Delete