Monday, November 9, 2009

On Feminism

Pre-script: This may not be your favorite topic to discuss or read about, but bear with me. I have a point somewhere in here, I promise!

We all know that feminism is looked down upon, so much that many people are intimidated by the mere mention of it, and anyone who is up for the “rights” of women is labeled a feminist. Whether feminism is a good thing or not depends on those who are carving the label on “feminists” and those who are receiving the label.
People have this negative view of feminism, as if it is the idea that women want to take over the world and rid it of men – or that feminists hate men and spread hatred of men all over the world. Perhaps that’s true for some extremist feminists, but it’s certainly not true for most. Some people also think that feminism means letting a woman go half (or all) naked in public and having her abandon her family (husband and kids and parents) for selfish reasons that have to do with her desire to be free. This is what a lot of people are basically indicating when they call you a feminist in an insulting manner. (Note: I don’t think it’s an insult to be called a feminist at all; I see it as an honor, and I’ll explain below.)

Nonetheless, if women have been treated worse than animals throughout history, should we really blame many of them for the negative attitude they hold towards men? I can't.
Feminism is just the notion that women are just as human as men are, or – as other feminists say – it’s the radical notion that women are people. (No, seriously. Believe it or not, but there have been major historical debates over the argument that women are people! You'll be surprised to know how many people (scholars, in fact :P lol) DON'T think women are humans!... but anyway). That's all it is. But many people misunderstand it and due to this sad misunderstanding hold a negative attitude towards those who label themselves feminists, as though it is a sin to be one. This is not true if one really studies the concept of feminism.

My sister interviewed some women, here in the U.S., for a class about their thoughts of women in the 70s, 80s, etc. and their opinions on the basic rights of women. Every single one was all for women's rights (e.g., rights to education, vote, divorce, marry, and so on), but when my sister asked them in the end, "Would you classify yourself as a feminist?" at least 90% said, "Oh God no! Never! I'm certainly not a feminist!"
I thought it was amusing because on the one hand, they say exactly what the feminists say, but on the other hand, they hold a very negative notion of the group. Interesting, no? Maybe it's the label. We don't wanna be associated with a group if it's got an overall really bad reputation.

I say that because I really don’t know what people think feminism is. If you believe that women are just as important as their male counterparts in a society that they run together and that women should not be treated as lesser humans than men are just because they’re not men, then – oh my God! Believe it or not but – you are a feminist! (I hate placing labels on people, especially the label of feminist, so I should make it clear that I'm making only a general statement here and nothing personal at all.) Oh, and I should mention that feminists aren’t just females; there exist many, many male feminists as well.

What’s more, feminists don’t just focus on women all their lives; they focus on humanity. To be a feminist is to recognize and react (or simply respond) to injustice in any society against any individual or any group of people. Thus, feminism acknowledges the oppression and sufferings of all people, not just women’s. I’m a part of this Women’s Group at my university called “Feminists in Action” (FIA)), and I tell you! These feminists have to be the best group of people on earth. Their openness to differences amazes me, their attitude towards those who don’t believe their way (be they anti-feminists!) relieves me, and their knowledge in different fields impresses me. In our last week’s discussion on feminism and women, one of the members said, “You know it’s natural for women to stay at home and cook, clean, take care of her babies and all because she was born that way. And it’s natural for men to be the breadwinners of the family and to be outside the home more often.” Now, to be perfectly honest, I was shocked to hear a member of the FIA say that out loud, but then I remembered that this group is all about listening, understanding, and respecting: they are not the type to attack or abuse anyone just because they disagree with the majority of feminists might say. And you know how everyone responded to her? With such decency that I’ve never seen before! The first person to express disagreement raised her hand (yeah, we raise our hands before we speak, and each of us lets the other speak before we speak ourselves) and said, “It’s interesting that you should say that because I don’t see anything natural about a woman’s ability to cook and clean and being inside the home all the time. I think society has made us see it that way, that the man belongs outside the home and the woman inside...” and she went on to finish her response. A male member raised his hand to express his view, and other members expressed theirs, and so on.

I am totally respected for saying that although I believe every woman should have the right to work if she wants to, even if it calls for her leaving her home, I would prefer to be with my kids all day long because I don’t trust people around me to raise them the way I think they should be raised. (BUT!! If I'm FORCED to be at home and clothe and feed and raise the kids myself while the hubby darling wanders off wherever and for however long he wants and *I* am expected to cook and clean and all, then we're gonna have some problems - BIG problems. In that case, I'll purposely resist in my own ways. Yeah, I expect Hubby Jaan to share domestic responsibilities with me :D I sure as heck am NOT doing all the cooking/cleaning/etc. I know, I know, I pity him more than you do.) But anyway, so yeah, these people are not the type of feminists who will say, “What kind of a feminist are you then?! How can you call yourself a feminist and prefer children to work?!” They understand that every feminist is different and has his/her own preferences.

The reason these people aren’t like that is that they know what feminism really is about: choice. We believe the woman should be allowed to do what she *knows* (or even believes) to be best for her and others around her, and no one has any right to disrespect her for her choice.

In the same group, I’m part of the “’Zine” committee (I found out only a couple of weeks ago that “zine” is like a tiny magazine), and when the other members and I were planning how it’ll be run during the school year, we decided that we’re going to cover a lot of issues, not just the issues that have been and are haunting women. Sure, we’ll feature stories that deal with injustices and discrimination against women, but we’ll also deal with war victims, children, intersex people (those who are born with both male and female reproductive organs; they’re commonly referred to as “hermaphrodites” but since this term has been used in a rather debasing manner for a few centuries, they prefer to be called intersex), physically/mentally disabled folks, and others who are mistreated only because they are either born a certain way or choose a certain lifestyle that society disrespects them for.

As for my view ... well, I think feminism is good for humanity because it acknowledges the sufferings of all people, especially women, and actually does something about it. It doesn’t let people just complain about what’s wrong in society and how much people are suffering and leave it to God to rescue us from our miseries but actually says, “Okay, now that we realize what’s wrong, let’s unite and fight these injustices.” It’s not easy being a feminist. In the U.S. even until a few decades ago, feminists were imprisoned, if not killed, for openly fighting for their basic rights – especially to vote. Feminism is the reason that women in the west can now earn PhD’s, vote (and even run for office), speak freely in the media, and so on. And forced marriages are certainly not heard of anymore because of feminism.
Of course, nothing comes without a price, and – Alas! - feminism doesn’t seem to be an exception to that universal rule! So it’s got its ups and downs, and perhaps it has ruined the west in many ways, but its positive consequences have outweighed its negative consequences.

So I don't think feminism should be feared at all, nor should anyone be intimidated by feminists. They happen to be among the most misunderstood groups of people on earth, and I understand what has brought about that misunderstanding. But I want people to realize that not all feminists are man-haters or wanna dominate men or wanna leave their children behind and be free outside their homes and dress however they want and do whatever they want even if doing so will mean breaking society apart. Believe it or not, but there exist feminists who would very so enthusiastically spend their lives worshiping (not literally) their husbands, ONLY IF the husbands are just that good to them. Why not? It is a relief to feminists to see that there are actual male humans on earth who would respect and appreciate a woman for who she is rather than for what she is expected to be by society.

It should also be noted that, in general, women instead of men are the main reason that the position of women is low in many societies; it is women who abuse and insult each other more than a man ever abuses/insults other women. (I'm not referring to domestic abuse here.) What I mean is that feminists realize that the strongest enemy of feminism is generally the woman, not the man. While society has a large say in how women are treated, women often bring it upon themselves by not standing up for themselves. They're a very powerful breed of people IF only they would let their power come out for once. If only they spoke up for themselves on their behalf and stood up against the abuses (especially physical abuses) against them . . . This goes for every society, including the western.

Anyway, I can go on and on about why things are wrong in every society and what women and men need do - both as individuals and as each other's sisters/brothers - to move towards a healthier, more secure, and friendly-towards-both-men-and-women society.
But let's not get there right now. You know what I find very interesting? ... When Muslims stand against feminism WHILE talking about how Islam has liberated women!! lol. I mean, Islam really IS the only religion that’s over 300 years old and actually gives women quite a few rights: women are free to be educated (in fact, they must be), they can vote, they can reject and accept marriage proposals as they wish (and forced marriages are NOT recognized by Islam, though they’re the norm in many societies with majority Muslim populations), initiate a divorce (though the process is rather difficult, not at all as simple as it is for the man), have custody of her children in case of divorce when the kids are young, and so on. If these aren’t women’s rights, then what ARE they? If this isn’t feminism, then what IS? Just because the word “feminism” didn’t exist until some decades (or centuries?) ago doesn’t mean it’s a new thing. The concept has ALWAYS existed; just the term for it is new.

So I’m interested to hear how you guys define the following terms: feminism/feminists, oppression, and liberation. It'll be interesting to see what you think it means to respect women as well. Perhaps other people's understanding of respecting females is different from mine (it actually is, lol). Yeah.


  1. Qrratugai khorey, in view of the divine law of balance, let us first consider the relationship between man and woman. According to divine law, this relationship was set up on the principle of the division of labor, i.e, it is the responsibility of the man to carry out tasks outside the home, while the woman takes charge of tasks within the home. The Qur’an states that “men are the protectors and maintainers (qawwam) of women.”

    This does not make a man a woman’s superior or her master. This only means that in running a home and bringing up a family, it is for the man, with his more active capabilities, to earn living, deal with all official matters, and, when called upon, defend his country. A man is by nature more suited to such tasks, and that is why it is in the nature of things that they should be his responsibilities and not woman’s. The Arabic word qawwam in the above verse, is an intensive form of qa’im meaning, “one who is responsible for or takes care of a thing or a person.” Thus the use of this word is indicative of the wisdom of the division of labor rather than the superiority of man over woman. It should be conceded that if the woman finds herself in a position of responsibility in running the home, it is because her more passive nature, her talent for household tasks, her gentleness and affection all fit her admirably for domesticity, to which she is certainly better adapted than her male counterpart.

    Since time immemorial life had been evenly systemized by this division of labor. Earning a living had most often meant hunting, farming, fishing, working in orchards, transporting merchandise for trading, all tasks physically difficult to perform, and therefore, better and more easily done by men. While men were engaged, it was simply more practical for women to stay at home and manage the household. But with the advent of the industrial revolution, conditions were created which tended to break up this natural order, for new jobs came into existence, which to some extent were suitable for women. Gradually, the traditional pattern of living began to change. Men were no longer the sole breadwinners: women had begun to share that responsibility. This trend in thinking eventually paved the way for the women’s liberation movement.

  2. The upholders of this movement maintained that the cause of the difference existing between men and women in societies with ancient traditions lay not in nature but in a man-made social framework. They held that, once given the opportunity to demonstrate her capabilities, in no respect would she lag behind. Today the social boundaries set by time-honored conventions have broken down, and all countries now have laws favoring equality of the sexes. Yet modern woman still finds herself on a lower rung than man. In every period of history, even today in western developed countries, women have remained subordinate to men. “It is a rough old world for women, as the feminists never cease to remind us.” However, what a feminist fails to understand is that universal male dominance stems not from social oppression but fundamental differences between the sexes. If it really were true that male dominance was due to social conditioning rather than innate male qualities, then surely somewhere in the world at some time a society would have evolved in which women were dominant. None has! Men have always been the leaders in public affairs and the final authorities at home. This does not mean men are better than women: Not better, but different. The central fact is that men and women are different from each other from the gene to the thought to the act. These differences flow from the biological natures of man and woman and Islam realizes this fundamental fact by giving them different spheres of activity. The fact that men and women function in different spheres has no bearing whatsoever on the ultimate equality, equality in the eyes of God: If the qualities of piety, humility, honesty and patience and compassion are demanded of men, they are in like measure also demanded of women. In respect of biology, men and women are not equal, both are not meant to shoulder an equal amount of burden.

    Women can not out-fight men and few who can argue them but when a woman uses feminine means she can deal with any man as an equal. Lol. The feminists cannot have it both ways: If she wishes to sacrifice all this, all that she will get in return is the right to meet men on male terms. She will lose.

    While you are determined to make your “hubby jan’s” life an inferno, I will make it incumbent upon me and take great pleasure to care for the needs of my Lalay (lol) who will be so precious to me, and I in turn will equally cherished and valued by my him. Without any pretension or ostentation, I will make sure the immaculate cleanliness, order and simplicity of my home and more importantly, its dwellers. Whatever will be provided, no matter how trifling, will be valued, cared for and kept as nicely as possible.

    So, Qrratugai khorey, the bottom line is the real criteria for true equality among human beings, can be perhaps found more truly in our own ideology and its social system than anywhere else in the world.

    They said: "Glory be to You! We have no knowledge except what You have taught us. You are the All-Knowing, the All-Wise." (Surat al-Bagarah: 32)

  3. Wowww!!.......let me first digest Spogmai's comments and then will write something :)....kho thanks mata dey omment kawal kafeeee asaan krral........dwa wrazo ke kho me illa da Qrratugai likal hazm

  4. Ma ba kala kala comment section ookatao che keday shee Spogmai sa likalee wee kho........hagha khabar na woom che da khamoshee da hikmat na khalee na da..:) khkulee comments mo likalee and Qrratugai khore qarregey ba na ao dasey na ~Qrratugai gets her rifle ready~..:) thinking is of the same lines.
    I was reluctant to comment as being male myself, my comments would have been considered as biased and thanks to Spogmai she put her point of view (as well as mine:)) very articulately......buss sanga che mo shairee da kamal da dasey mo likal ao commenting hum da kamal dee......well thats just true :)
    The thing is that nothing is perfect in this world and our culture and traditions are no exceptions. Kho Sanga che Spogmai likalee "the real criteria for true equality among human beings can be found among our own ideology and social system than anywhere else in the world".We have that hypocrisy that we follow those teachings/values of our faith and traditions which are easy for us to follow. We just need to workout those misunderstandings and not just go 180 degrees in the opposite direction and putting male and females further apart than actually bringing them together.
    In well established societies and government systems, such as the West, it 'might' work but its hard to adopt this feminist ideology in our set-up. I'm not saying that women should always be oppressed and subjected to inequality, no never would I think about it for a single moment as I have tremendous respect for them. But we need to make ourselves aware of the true and authentic teachings of our deen/faith and follow that in true spirit, what we are supposed to follow not what we like to marrey I think having more,khore,loor,khaza, I guess majority among us have true respect for khaza zaat:). What happens to the contrary is just pure ignorance and once we get ourselves properly aware of the male/female rights as per our teachings, there would be no inequality. But if we want to continuously close our eyes and go by our own desires and masculine/feminine complexes, then there is non end to this inequality debate (which I guess is not bound to the geogrpahy, culture/traditions or believes).

    Allah mo tal kushala lara!

  5. Khugman wrora ache

  6. Hahahaha!.......rishtya wey.......hagha zama pa khyal topak mopak na poora da doshakey bandobast kai rapasey laka

  7. LOL!!!!!!! Staso sara ba za poha sham kha, huo!
    Oss najora yam, no sam soch na sham kawaley, kho I must say -- I appreciate you guys' thoughts :) Waley ba raana takhtai, lewano? lol. I was HOPING you would say that, kana!
    Kho che jora sham, jawab ba darta olekam, ka khairee :)

  8. Da sa wai??.......joking aside I'm really sorry to hear kana Allah de jorra ka ao kha khkuley sehat dey Rab naseeb krra (Ameen)

  9. Wo, da parun na naajora yam; Spogmai kha shwa, ao za ye najora krram!

  10. Khugman najorra hum na topak mopak, doshakey hum na gore...ghakhoona rapase tera kai...os hum wakht de ache takhto...

  11. LOL!.....Spogmai gora delta da sa lag dher ka da likalo sa ikhtiar mo dhay hagha rabandey hum bandey...:).....Qrratugai kho yaqeen mey na kegee ka dasey pa hala asana pa qalara kenee kho zama pa khyal pa rishtya najorra gwarey ta ye pakey khasosee yada karrey ye da najorrtia pa waja ke, no khyal kawa dagha tera ghakhoona ba wrrombey pa ta

  12. Wo Khugman wror...da Qrratugai pa shan energetic janai aw pa qalara kenastal, da kho mumkana na rishtya najorra da...da khwarey pa wisdom tooth hum darr de aw yakhnai hum wahaley da...khwdey de pre khpal raham wai che dentist la na zam bas phone ba warta os de na sa jorrey?

  13. Dua ba warta kawo che Khudai ye jorra krree....kho da dentist la na tla? da la bala!..... mung la kho doomra da palsapey na duk articles likee ao pa khpala bia dasey da na pohai kaar kai :)......Umeed dey taso ba poha karree wee ao kedae shee mind ye change karrae wee......Allah dey warla sehat warkrree!

  14. Spogmai~da Qrratugai sa pata oolageda? is she doing now?.....Dentist la taley wa ka pa khpala ye da amboor na kaar aghistey wo?
    I hope she is doing well.

  15. @Khugman...ghareeba najorra hum da aw bal khwa ta teachers warla da homework dooooooomra zyat assignments warkai che....kho masha'allah dera energetic da...khwdey de ye zar rogha krre...ameen

  16. Buss zamung pa wass key kho dagha duaganey dee no dua ba wrata kao.

  17. Warho, khudey yo loye sarrey ao khazey kai! Kha ba sham, ka khairee ... nan rapasedam ao awaz me bugh wo :O Daa surprises me dere khwakhe shee (I love bugh awaz, you see).

    Ghaakh (I mean ghaakhuna) ba ubaasam, lol ... pakhpala no, na, Khugmanda :P Pa maa ke ka dumra himmat wey che pa ambur ye raubasam, maa ba pukhaaaaaaaaa karrey wo ao. Spogmai ba ye rala wakee ka wa na sho lol

  18. P.S. Spogmai ta me wey, kana, che taso ba raapase "qawwamoon" comments lekai nu KHUD ba Qrratugai naajora keegi! ~pulls all hair~
    LOL :D

  19. Za shukar dey che kha ye no nore ba

    Qrratugai@"Spogmai ta me wey, kana, che taso raapase "qawwamoon" comments lekai......."

    Hahahaha......gora Spogmai aalima fazila jenai da ao khabara kho ye sahee likaley hagha bala khabara che pa taso kedae shee kha na wee lagedaley :)......kho insha-Allah zamung comments ba dey pa life positive impact kai :)

  20. loll... na, of course that was a joke, lol. Qawwamuna qawwamun ba hala kao che za kala pa mood ke sham che omanam che al-rijaalu qawwamuna 'ala-Qrratugai ;)

    kidding :D (Spogmai ba me halala kee oss :P)

  21. @Khugman~You don't know Qrratugai khor yet! She is going to pick holes in everything we said! Watch and see. lol.

  22. LOL......OKkkkkk....we'll see, Khudai de khair kai che la nore ba sa wayee :)

  23. You guys are SO mean! lolll ... Spongmai, khalak ba ase zama ajaze khwaare da laare na share! Pa asal ke kho I'm just a harmless, amicable little creature :) Qalaara she, markhanrai tror.

    Khogmanda, she's just KIDDING, of course :O Da de sara ba za poha sham, kha!

    You see, awaz me da khwle na hado na ozee, no it feels like I can't talk talk - type either! Because once I start, khudey de khair kee, bya ba da baskedo kala yam, lol.

    Na, lag tem raakai so I can figure out how to put my perspectives in as diplomatic a manner as you two did yours, kana :) Qrratugai tends to go a bit too crazy at times, and who knows che I might say something that turns out to offend readers and I didn't mean for it to be taken personally at all, you see...
    Not everyone knows how to put their thoughts well in words, and Qrratugai knows only qrrate kawaling at this level - nothing good like how to present her controversial thoughts in a decent manner just yet. Nu guzara rasara kawai, warho! Heela da che da yao bal na ba sa izda koo, ka khairee :D

  24. Qrratugai quoting: "O Da de sara ba za poha sham, kha!"
    Alaaa ma sa chal karrey de che ma sara ba poha she, toba me da kha! ~at wits end~ Rahman Baba rishtya wayalee dee:
    Da meegi da dushmanai taqat me na wo
    Khwdey rapekha dushmani krra da asman

  25. @Spogmai:"...Khwdey rapekha dushmanee krra da asman" kho derta wey kana che Qrratugai ba rapasey poora bandobast kai kho ta wel na najorra da :)

  26. Khugman wrora, Qrratugai needs no preparations! She writes spontaneously kho ghareeba pa rishtya najora da and what surprises me most is that the nearest dentist is just 3-4 minutes drive from her home kho zorawara da! Khwdey de ye zar jorra krree za ye sama preshana karrey yam, sahar kho ye awaaz hum na rawato...guess she wants me to fly all the way from Swat to the USA che las newaley ye doctor ta bozam. Rishtya darta owaym...marra da "staney" wahalo na yareegi...hai manzarai che...har wakht mata negha negha kegi...

  27. @Spogmai:"....marra da "staney" wahalo na yareegi..hai manzarai che....har wakht mata negha negha kegi...."

    LOL.....daa da "stano" da 'phobia' kome ta che zama pa khyal "Aichmophobia" wayee, dalta dero khalko ta wee :).....kho zama pa khyal dentists kho uss hagha 'freezing' techniques use kai kho kedeyshee da dey dapara dagha procedure poora na
    Ao likalo ao da khpalo khyalato pa izhaar ke kho waqai che hess sa shak nishta...:)

  28. Kha, warho! Raghlam :) Oss ba replies to your posts shoro kam, kha? lol.

    Ao ghali shai, kha! Za da stano na yaregam :O ... wait, come to think of it, I AM scared of how they're going to yank my sweet innocent teeth, so I am SERIOUSLY re-considering the whole idea of getting them yanked out to begin with. Not to mention, wass hado darr kai hum no :D Kho don't worry, Spogmai! Raobasam ba ye khamakha ... ta ba me bya khyal saate no, gwarey. Zama malgaree che kala dagha wisdom toothuna ubaasi, bya warta sam jaari :S

    Khpal travel angentuno ta owaya che dalta de rawalegi zar tar zara!

    k, funny stuff aside, lemme wass respond to your "al-men qawwamuna 'ala women" comments! Tura me hai da tayara kari da, LOL.

  29. @Qrratugai:"....Tura me hai da tayara kari da...."

    Pa ta bandey hum da Talibano Swahibano asar shawey, halalawal de jo kasa khwakh shee......LOL!

    Its nice to see you back, matlab da che duagano ke mo asar shta......zama na marrey, zama matlab da Spogmai dua ba darta lagedaley wee :)

  30. LOL! hahahahaha ... nu sa wakam, da Swat paida shawee yam kana, laka da Talibano :P

    No, no, please ... it was a joke. lol.

    Wo, da Spogmai abai kho dessi khaista khaista dawagane yee, sam khwand raakai!

    I WROTE THIS LONG COMMENT AND I dont know what the heck i did but this page refreshed and now it's gone :S Alaaaaaaaa!!!!!!!! Jaaram gwarey!!!
    alaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!!!! pa maa bande sar churlee ao zrra raata isheegi, kho nor sabar raapake na wo, jo maa wey ache reply wakam da deo de comments ta!
    uggggghhhhh!!!!! I hate this, I hate this, I hate this!!!!

    predawa ye ... za wass zama che samlam; saba ba shee, ka khairee ... God!!! :@:@:@:@:@:@:@:@

  32. Just so you guys know, it was so long I was thinking about what to say in it for the last hour or so ~SCREAMS in frustration~ :@

    tsk, tsk!!!!!! :@:@

  33. @Qrratugai~wai da karrao brakha de da...marrey iba za...khwdey de sar ta khair lara!
    After the bad experiences I have had with this blog, I now prepare most of my things in the MS Word!
    Sundays off we jo Khugman wror kaso oda de!

  34. Salamuna! staso khabara rishtya da bega dher nawakhta pore nast woom no nawakhta pore oda rata kaar wo ao bia sa da u-tube the pakhto da sandaro pa dunya ke wrak shawey woom (@Spogmai,taso kho hasey hum khpala shairee pata cherta khundey karrey da)

    @Qrratugai~SCREAMS in frustration~.....hahaha! it happens and is really very frustrating.

  35. lol... yeah, I'm now preparing mine in MS word as well :S and copying the post every few seconds when typing it in this vicious box! hmph.

  36. LOL! Spogmai! It’s not fair, kha, huo, lol. ALLLLLLLLLLL Qrratugai wants is for her beloved Hubby Jaan to bring her breakfast in bed (and to be an excellent cook, lol)! Is that too much to request? ~cries desperately~ :P

    Funny stuff aside, aao, marey, we all know your husband’s gonna be the luckiest man on earth. You’d make a perfect wife – as educated and intelligent as you are but still keeping your value as a precious woman in mind. You'll be able to entertain him with your knowledge and intellect as well as your desire to please him by fulfilling the roles you believe are yours by nature.

    But me, I can’t, Spogmai ... You know very well I don’t believe in this “obedience” stuff. I mean, I'm all for respecting my husband and not doing things that would upset or hurt him, but I cannot see my marriage as a kingdom in which the husband is the king who gives orders and I'm the subject who receives those orders and must then obey. (If the marriage must be a kingdom, then let him me the king and me the queen. I'll not settle for anything less than that :S) What’s with the wife having to obey her husband? I believe in mutual respect and understanding, alongside good communication. I don’t plan to ask my husband if I can go to a conference coming Saturday and Sunday; I plan to instead let him know that I’m interested in going and would even love it if he joins me. If he doesn’t want me to go, he should be able to give me a logical, reasonable explanation for why I can’t go. He’s more than free to make suggestions (e.g., “Qrratugai, you shouldn’t go. I’ll be coming home late that day, and it’d be REALLY lonely to come to an empty home, kana, marey ..." and maybe even add that he'll miss me, hahahaha. No, seriously.), in which case I’ll happily not go. But he must not feel like he has any authority over me whatsoever. If he says,“No, you can’t go because I don’t want you to leave the house" or "There will be men there, and I don't want men to see you" or "Pa qalaara kena; what's the point of going to these conferences anyway?" then we’re gonna have some problems. I cannot see my husband as above me in any way; he’s to be my friend and my life companion who stands shoulder-to-shoulder with me, who is to HELP me make decisions or make decisions WITH me (not make decisions on BEHALF of me, unless I let him) for the safety and well-being of our family and ourselves. There will come times when he’ll be the one making big decisions for the family, and there will come times when *I* will be the one to do it, simply based on the matter in question. If it's something he has more knowledge about, then obviously he should do it; if I have more knowledge about it, then I should be the one dealing with it. It has nothing to do with superiority or inferiority; it’s about giving your partner a say in important matters. If I were an illiterate woman, though, then it’d be understandable why he would make all decisions (especially if he’s educated), even if without discussing them with me. But if we’re equally educated, why should his being a man put him in a higher position than me? Am I not capable of making good decisions for myself or for those who are under my authority, but he is? (I will explain this further in a little while, ‘cause I know you touched it in your posts as well.)

    To be ctd ...

  37. Spogmai, I’m not happy with the type of relationship the women and men in our society have with each other. Na, I'm not calling for all our women to start working and leaving their homes without their husbands' permission/consent/knowledge; that's not my concern at all. But I’ve seen a world in which husbands and wives are actual friends who don’t dominate each other – who don’t give each other orders – but who work together and complete each other. (No, it’s not a utopian society; no, it’s not the American society; no, it’s not common.) It's a world in which wives don't worry about having put a little too much salt in inguley or dodai, because their husbands understand that it cannot have been done intentionally and the wife will be eating the same food anyway.

    But is it not typical in our society for a wife to fear her husband? To practically shake all over if she’s not done something that he’s demanded, or if she’s gone somewhere without his permission or approval? I don’t want this fear. Wives shouldn’t have to be afraid of their husbands like this. They should be allowed to explain their behavior, and the husbands should be decent enough to respect it.

    We lack communication, you see. Let the wives speak on their behalf, and stop letting the husbands take over every single matter. Practically, isn't the husband a god in our society, Spogmai? No, I don't mind it if the wife loves her husband SO much she'd worship him; you know I am all for this and would do it myself if my own Hubby Jaan deserves such special treatment. But is it really out of love in our culture? ... or is this lovely treatment of husbands by their wives only out of fear? Is the wife so good to her husband because she loves him so much and he takes such perfect care of her, or is it because she fears that if she doesn't please him at least 103.8%, he will bring another wife home or that he'll divorce her?

    That’s not to say that there don’t exist families in which husbands respect what their wives have to say, of course, or where communication and understanding rule, but I’m talking about the typical Pukhtun family, and we all will no doubt agree that the typical Pukhtun family does not have good communication and understand with mutual respect.

    To be continued ... (tomorrow, lol. Khugman, I'll get to your comment as well, ka khairee.)

  38. Hahahaha......I knew and expecting what was going to come.....Spogmai cherta waryazo ke pata shawey yee za dey warta yawazey prekhwam :).....
    Marrey I was just going to sleep, da de sa pa gham warrawalam :(

    You know I started writing my point of view kho da zrra mey domra zore nishta, so I deleted it because I know convincing an ideologue(in this case a feminist:)),requires too much arguing and counter-arguing so I'm not gonna convince you anyway as you already have your mind made up :).......hagha bala khabara che da Spogmai na mey umeed dey che hagha ba dey convince kree or at least she will soften your 'extremist' views da typical pakhtoon family bara kana sta hum pora 'jawar' khyalat dee laka zamunga da hagha "Swahibano" kho totally 180 degrees kidding ao kena khabarey mey cherta mind na krrey!
    But as I told you earlier that instead of shattering the existing social setup, we need to work on what needs to be done to fix the family problems keeping in mind and FOLLOWING our true Islamic teachings as well as our core Pakhtoon values (hagha bala khabar che ta ba ye na maney). Manum che zamung society/culture ke dhere khamyaney ba wee kho che kome sta point of view dey dasey hum na probably have spent here considerable time and we also lived here for quite a bit of a time and know friends/acquaintances who have broken families, yes they exactly go by what you khashmashee from da khawand side, no tapose pukhtana, lot of respect and understanding but when just a tiny little issue comes up their comes the real test of their mutual understanding and respect and each fights for their own ego and dominance. At such time, nobody cares for the good times they enjoyed together and then won't care for their families, kids, friends and the general society...and just find out (you might already know) the ratio of such shattered/destroyed families on top of all this established system/society, education, human rights, gender equality, mutual respect, understanding, communication and all those attributes that would make the family exactly of what you imagine and the kind of husband and wife that you know what you have rested for few days because of dagha najorrtya kho I'm just so tired as I worked all this weekend preparing for an important meeting tomorrow so I beg your pardon :)

    ~yawwwwwwning~.....dasey kaar dey che nore gup ba bia lagao ao nore ba dersara Spogmai lag dher mazgha ookhwree (mata pata wa haghey che da takhtedo khabara kawala haghey ta sta pata now da Allah pa amaan!

  39. LOL! No, no, no, Khumanda, lol. Let's not try to convince each other of our arguments, kana. Let's try to only understand what the other has to say, and none of us should feel as though we must accept what the other has to say, kha? BUT! You're always welcome to correct me in cases where I'm wrong, and I'm totally fine with that.

    Now, I agree with what you said below:
    "But as I told you earlier that instead of shattering the existing social setup, we need to work on what needs to be done to fix the family problems keeping in mind and FOLLOWING our true Islamic teachings as well as our core Pakhtoon values (hagha bala khabar che ta ba ye na maney)."

    Yes, we it'd be silly - in fact, stupid - to attempt to completely change the way our current social system is set up. Rather, we cannot have a set of laws telling women to stop fearing their husbands, now, can we? lol. That's only to happen if individual families serve as examples themselves, ensuring that their children are observing and remembering what they're seeing.

    It should not be concluded from my views that I think the western society is better than my Pukhtun society. Never. Both have their problems, though very different, and both have their good side as well. And it'd be unfair of anyone to turn our society into a western one, seeing as our basic family systems are very different from the western ones and everyone knows we are nowhere close to the industrialization of the west.

    So I agree with you that we need to work on the down side of our culture and the family structure *without* having to actually change anything.

    In my next posts, I'll tell you guys about the different types of feminisms (note: feminismsssss) there are, discuss the concept of equality, this idea of leadership and authority of men, and directly respond to some of Spogmai's comments, one by one, ka khairee.

    Sama da? Oh, and then I'll also explain the purpose of this post, which was/is to let you know that feminism has no fixed definition and that's why I'm sitting here spending my time finding a definition for it, lol :P

  40. @Khugman~Wrora pa khpal comment mo laga tadee wakrra! lol...Lag war ba mu karre wo che da Qrratugai perspective ma'lom shawey wey no bya ba measured and objective assessment of the situation zyat khwand karrey wo! Kho marra no worries...

  41. @Spogmai~na mata dagha ehsaas wo kho ma wel rasha sa na sa oleeka ganee ma wel it would have been better che taso handle karrey wey :).......staso comment che mey wa na leedo no ma wel taso ba lagya yai ke dayshee Word ke lagya yai type kawai ao uss ba ye post krrai......kho taso likwal ziat poha yai kana mung kho hasey na

  42. Qrratugai Khorai, as a side comment, ke dayshee staso da hagha zorr design sara amookhta shawee wo, da dey Blog da nawey design kho dey banda bekhee dis-orient

  43. hmmmmmm
    Welldone objective based article you wrote...i agree with your reflection..

    Let me respond you...

    In a common way ,The term Feminism can be used to describe a political, cultural or economic movement aimed at establishing more rights and legal protection for women. Feminism involves political and sociological theories and philosophies concerned with issues of gender difference, as well as a movement that advocates more gender-specific rights for women and campaigns for women's rights and interests...

    In the far past there had been debates among scholars like Plato,Aristotle etc that whether a women should be considered a full human or half human half animal..They had strange approaches towards women.the debates went long and long with no final result to give a full human status to women..even later on the christains followed the same degraded status of women in their society..In ancient Roman era women was give full freedom with exagarated position.the prostitute of that time had strong infulence in making and shaking the states.They kep women above societal head,that iz abnormal statues.this was one extrem pertaining exagerated freedom...later on the anceint greeks gave another status to women by keeping them in full curtain inside four walls(the women used to wear Burqa like clothese so that no one can see her)..this was totally inhuman approach by keeping women in degraded position...the status of women was totally ignoring,no economic political cultural activity for women in society...totally abondaned and parasytic statuse.this was like women beneath feet.another extrem we can see here..the abnormal men treatment..the same followed by the proceeding generation for a lonegr time.
    Then Islam cam and gave women a normal balanced and natural status in society.for the first time Islam gave women rights in property sharing,economic and political rights like Aisha the wife of prophet did.This never happened before.The quran said clearly that you have rights over your wives and your wives have rights over husbands..also it added that All humans(women and men) are equal in front of God's eye ,the priority iz only based on another place Quran says that For the men there iz share what they earn and for the women there iz share what they earn.This ayat give economic and job empowerment to both..The only thing iz division of labour according to the physic of both..Normally women are delictae by biology and men are stronge so hardwork iz naturlly favors men..This what we see today but if a women can do its ok to follow it..(Continue)

  44. According to G.A Parwez,,However, the Muslim criteria of fixing the status of a woman, or man, are neither these social laws nor this moral code. For the Muslims, there is only one standard under the sky, and that is the book of God, which they profess to believe in. What status does the Quran endows for woman? The details are lengthy, but their gist reminds me of a joke which Allama Iqbal used to relate. He would say, "If I were not a Muslim, and I had studied the Quran like an ordinary student, then I would have concluded that this book was written by a woman, who was taking revenge on man, for the usurped rights of her community". If one studies the religions and cultures of the world, it leaves no doubt in one's mind that a woman has been pushed to extreme degradation. On the other hand, in the Quranic study it appears as if she has been favoured very much. For a start, the Quran has rejected the common belief that God created man (Adam) first and then woman (Eve) was created out of his rib. By now, you must have understood that according to the Quran, this very concept that human beings were created by a special couple called Adam and Eve, is wrong. The Quran, in effect, presents Adam as the representative of mankind or humanity.
    Further about the word Za'uj, The Quran calls both man and woman as Zauj; but in Urdu we call a woman the Zauja of a man. We do not call a man the Zauj of a woman. The Quran, however, calls both man and woman, Zauj to each other, meaning companions. Further, it does not say that the woman is a man's Zauj, and that the man is not. God addresses human beings and tells them: He has made Zauj among you (30:21, 42:11). Zauj means a friend and companion; which implies that men and women are each other's friends and companions. Accordingly, Zauj would mean the ones who are complementary to each other. Given this meaning, a man complements a woman, and a woman complements a man. They are Zauj to each other. The Quran has gone to the extent of saying, you are from each other (3:195). Therefore, no individual can call itself complete unilaterally.

    After this, the Quran has negated the myth that 'Adam had faltered in the paradise due to a woman'. The belief of Satan trapping the woman and then the woman tempting Adam, who sinned and was then kicked out of paradise was rejected as has been mentioned in Torah of Jews. The Quran says that both man and woman are capable of compliance or defiance of laws; both can err and commit mistakes. Therefore, it said: Satan misguided both of them. Hence it is wrong to surmise that woman is responsible for all the sins committed in this world, and that the man is completely innocent.(continue)

  45. Having seen the negative stance, let us explore the positive angle. The Quran ordains: Verily We have made humankind worthy of respect (17:70). This reference is not only for man, but for woman also. In the norms of the Arabic language when one wants to mention both men and women together, would say "Bani so and so". In the Quran, "Bani Israel" does not mean only men of Israel, but both men and women. Similarly when the Quran tells us: We created humans with aesthetic balance (95:4), this includes both men and women. The Quran always collectively addresses human beings, and not just men.
    Aside from this division of labour, the remaining human capabilities belong to both men and women. Surah Al-Ahzab mentions all these capabilities, which can be attributed to both men and women:

    If men have the potentiality to develop their personality by harmonizing themselves with the Laws of Allah, then women also have a similar potentiality; if men can be members of a movement that aims at world peace according to the inviolable Laws of Allah, then women also can participate in it by becoming its members; if men can restrain their capabilities so as to develop them within the laws of Allah, so can women; if men can vindicate the truth of their conviction through its practical implementation in life, so can women vindicate it; if men can remain steadfast on the path they have chosen, so can women; if men have the inexhaustible capacity to be more and more in harmony with the Laws of Allah once they are set on this path, so have women this inexhaustible capacity; if men can sacrifice lower values for higher values, so can women; if men can exercise control and do not violate the limitations set on them, so can women; if men can keep their sexual urge within the desired limits, so can women; if men can understand the Laws of Allah and focus their activities in life on them, so can women. Now if both men and women have equal capacities and potentialities, their results should also be the same for both of them. Hence both will enjoy protection and security, and all other such benefits and joy that will come out of their deeds.
    Look Quran iz so affecionate one women as it realized it from the history..
    So we can say that the Roman put women above head,the greek put women beneath feet and the Islam put women in leap,that is the balanced position,none of any extrem line..
    I would say that women must pay thanx to divine wisdom as it realized and sensitized her with such correct and natural status.
    The problm lies with misinterpretation of Mufti mullas joint veture for narrowing women role in society....
    Here in our pukhtoon society poepl are confused in pukhto and islam and this confusion has drastic effect on darling women role i society..
    Men has always doubl standard for himself and herself.Men want to ejoy fully while women has to remain in limits which has been drawn by men.this not fair at all.We must sense God 's approach which iz beyaond gender and equal for both.Even the ultmiate reward in the name of paradise has been put beneath women (mother)feet.what women wants more????????? (continue)

  46. Mung hpl tol nang,ghairat pukhtoo da khaze sara tarale da,,this extremely unfair unjustice...ka saray her sa kae kae de kho khaza ba sam hm na kae,,da doubl standard(munafiqat) ghalat de.ka za da khazo da equal rights khabara koma nu za quran follow koma and in that sens i m proud to say i am feminist....
    za ka hpl half (women) betaleema au pa kor k danana pa zor predm nu zama rarawan generation ba sa kae...zaka kho mung rosto you che da jwand nema hisa mu pa rasm o riwaaj k qiad kare...This iz gender slavery...sok wae che ghulami khatma shawe,,na na,,os hm ghulami shta pa pukhtano ke da khazo pa baab....bahar haal we should nt b totaly pessimist,,we have to provide space for optimism all time,,au ro ro ppukhatan ra realize kae che khaza educate,,zaka che da education sara self awareness raze au self awareness sara khaze ta da hplo haqoqo pata lagee..
    da dunia bal yau kitaab hm da khazo pa favour ke domra sa na de wele somra che quran wele zaka me da haghe hawala hm wrka......

    da pukhtani khaze jwand,
    ya ba pa kor ke ter she
    ya ba pa gor ke ter she
    na pa jara poya shwa
    na pa khand poya shwa
    da jwand sahar au mahaam
    laka da stare mazdor
    da kaar pa ghaig ke ter she
    zama au sta pa gham ke
    tre na hpl zaan hm her she
    na khatmedonkay zulam
    da da pakhwa na shoro
    da da tareekh jabar de
    da da saree kabar de...

    WoMEN....Their iz MEN inside Women..feel it ,,realise it,,,identify it.I being a MAN here because of WOMEN...



  47. Wow! Thanks for your comments, Anonymous # 1 (lol, Nawaz!) and Anonymous # 2 (who are you? :O) :) You’ve made some very good points in your posts that I find very important (especially what you said concerning the term “zauj”), & I can’t wait to respond to them now. So, many, many thanks! I’m honored that you decided to join us!

    I’ll get to y’all’s comments in a minute, ka khairee.

    There are several different types of feminists, several different concepts of feminism. Lemme take this time to tell you about them.

    ~ CULTURAL FEMINISM: teaches that patriarchy is THE best way for a society to function, and since patriarchy is now looked down upon because of feminism, we need to do something to give patriarchy the respect it once had and that it deserves. Women must appreciate and value their womanhood, including their ability to have children and nurture them, and all women should get married for the purpose of fulfilling their most natural role as women: having children. Women who are not married are not real women and they should be ashamed of themselves – as are women who choose not to have children.

    ~ LIBERAL FEMINISM: Liberal feminists say that the rights that women need (education as good as men’s, right to custody, right to vote, right to divorce, etc.) should be given to them by the government, that it’s the government’s obligation to make sure that society gives women these rights. ((NOTE: It may be a good idea to leave it to the government instead of waiting for society to wait for decades and centuries to accept it because traditional norms are generally far too deeply-rooted in societies for progress to take place. Take the practice of sati in India, for instance, or forced marriages in any culture. Even though the Pakistani government has issued laws against forced marriages, do women feel any more safer? Do our cultural beliefs let the government interfere in how we get married? Liberal feminists want the government to do whatever it has to in order to make sure that women are secure.))

    ~ RADICAL FEMINISM: claims that men are the reason women have problems. Radical feminists stand against men, marriage, patriarchy, etc. ((They are perhaps the reason that feminists, during the second wave of feminism in the 60s, shaved their heads while refusing to shave their legs/arms and decided that lesbianism was the best lifestyle for them.))

    There are more – like Marxist Feminism – but those three are my fav ones.

    Kha, now, a friend of mine was telling me that my desire to have Hubby Jaan bring me breakfast in bed is against the Pukhtun traditions :@ Maa wey ita khudey de. Who is traditions/society to tell my husband whether he can cook for me (out of love! SIMPLY LOVE! lol) or not? Why let society mingle in my private and intimate life? k, fine, he won’t tell his friends or others and I won’t tell anyone that he cooks for me or brings me breakfast in bed! Sheesh. When we let society tell us what’s masculine and what’s feminine, we let ourselves fall prey to its evil eye.

    (He was kidding, of course, and brutally reminding me that the probability for that fantasy to come true is very low, LOL. But I’ll remain determined: Hubby Jaan will agree to make it happen at least once a month. Or else. ~squeeeeeeeee~)

    The same friend said that I should maintain my views on seeing women and men as *equally* important members of society who are nothing without each other, with different roles meant to keep a healthy and stable society that depends on the skills and efforts of all of its members – but I must NOT call it feminism, because that scares people. He noted that I’m attempting to re-define feminism, knowing that the original purpose of feminism was basically to exploit and devalue women: once women get out of their homes, it’ll be more convenient for their exploiters to access them and do with them whatever they want. So I can argue on behalf of women, as long as I don’t call it feminism! :S


  48. But we must understand that concepts evolve and they don’t always mean what they meant initially. And so here I am, trying to re-define what it means to be a feminist! Certainly, many feminists would disagree, but then again, they have no idea what feminism is. For instance, I recently read an article titled something like “On Dominance and Equality” (or was it “Difference and Dominance”?), and in it, the author’s main argument was that women and men are NOT equal. To say that we’re equal is to say that we’re the exact same thing when, in reality, we’re not. In mathematics, we say that 2x2 = 4, and that means that 2x2 is the same as 4; both sides of the equal sign are the same. She went on to say that women shouldn’t be measured against men because both have their own skills and natural abilities and both should be respected for them.

    And, well, this lady is like the most hated feminist alive today! She’s much respected universally, and her lectures have the largest crowd, but she’s not anyone’s favorite. She’s my favorite. I think she’s hated BECAUSE she’s misunderstood. Most feminists are fooled into thinking that men and women are *equal* and that means they should demand *equal* treatment when, as the author above said, that’s not true. STOP measuring us women against men. We are NOT men. We don’t WANT the exact same things that men have. What we hate is the fact that women and men are not biologically equal, and that’s what has led to the subjugation of women in virtually every culture: women are seen as inferior and thus mistreated because they’re not men.

    Other feminists argue that, well, if it’s BECAUSE of our differences that we’re mistreated, then let’s prove our worth by saying that just because we’re biologically different doesn’t mean we’re intellectually incapable of doing what men can do. And that’s when they decide to say that women are equal to men (mentally, not physically).

    I think both groups have good arguments.

    Lemme quote this lady named Lara David (I saw her blog recently and liked one of her posts very much). Consider her last sentence; it’s very well said. She writes, and I quote:

    "Some have interpreted this [demand for respect of women in society] as a half-hearted and hypocritical demand for equality, when it is actually anything but. Demanding recognition as mothers and women sort of fundamentally requires an expectation that we will not be treated exactly the same as a man would. Why would we want to be treated exactly like men anyway? In case you didn't notice, WE'RE NOT MEN. What we're demanding is not equality - it's equity.

    We demand respect for doing a damn hard job and doing it well. We demand respect for creating a community that inspires and uplifts in the face of some of life's greatest challenges. We demand respect for refusing to compromise our femininity in the face of professional obstacles. We don't demand the EXACT SAME RESPECT that men receive - that's like demanding everyone wear the same shoes, regardless of size. We demand the respect that is most fitting to our stations, but damn it, we still demand the respect. We are women, and we should be treated as women - to do otherwise would be to ignore plain facts. But being treated as women should not automatically mean being treated as less serious or less important....”

    The problem, we all know, is that women are treated *less better* than men *because* they are not men, *because* they are built differently than men are.


  49. The purpose of this post of mine was to show that feminism comes in different forms, and feminists come with different views. Another article I read was one in which the author wrote something like: “There are as many feminisms in this world as there are feminists.”

    LOL. And she said, “My sisters think that’s funny. I don’t think it is!” lol … I think it’s true but, yes, not funny. All feminists agree that, yes, it’s time we finally defined feminism so that non-“feminist” can see what we really are about – AND so that feminists themselves can come to an understanding. I don’t think it’s going to happen – not in the next two centuries, anyway.

    And, so, here I be, giving you *my* definition of feminism and showing you what a Pukhtun feminist looks like :P I think a new term needs to be coined in place of "feminism," since the concept is looked down upon because it’s one of the most misunderstood concepts ever developed. And it doesn’t have good representatives, either. So we need another term that will be reasonable enough not to intimidate people.

    It’s just like how being Muslim is pretty much a bad thing in much of the west today because of what fundamentalist Muslims have done and are doing in the name of Islam, and so a lot of Muslims are standing up to say, “That’s NOT Islam! That’s NOT what a Muslim does! Here – look at me, look at us – this is what a Muslim looks like; this is how a Muslim believes and behaves.” Feminists are in a similar position, and we want to help give feminism a positive image and clear up the misconceptions attached to the label and its owners.

    One last thing before I get to Spogmai’s comments. To see man as the head of woman and to constantly focus on that is a big problem, in my opinion. You see, *because* man’s the head of the woman, he gets more share in property than the woman does (I'm not deciding whether that's a good thing or a bad; I'm only stating a well-known fact); *because* he’s the head, he is permitted by God to beat (supposedly only with a ‘miswaak’ and then the question becomes, was this miswaak ALWAYS the same size that it is today!) his wife if she is being however you want to translate the word “nushooz” (and when you ask what the WIFE should do when her husband is being bad to her, the answer is, “be patient.” What? Why can’t the husband be patient too?); *because* he is the head, all major decisions lie in his hand; *because* he’s the head, he MUST be obeyed by his wife. And so on. We forget the fact that the wife’s role is just as important as the husband’s role is: without her, can this man accomplish anything at all? Okay, he works for her, yeah, sure, but she cooks for him, she maintains his house, she raises his children, she takes care of his parents and other family members, and does a million other things she'll never be appreciated for-- especially if she doesn't get a son (in some societies). Yet, she always has to “obey” him? This is why I don’t believe in this concept of obedience. Why see the husband as worthy of obedience when what the wife does is JUST as important?

    When we see men as the ones in whose hands lies the final authority, we are giving their masculine roles more importance and more value than to the roles of women. Think about it.

    Politically and economically speaking, the thing is ... because what the woman produces cannot be measured in economical terms, she’s not respected or appreciated for it. The man, on the other hand, makes money, and you can see how much money he makes based on how well his family is fed, clothed, and sheltered – based on how well not only their needs but also their wants are met.

  50. Quoting Spogmai: “This does not make a man a woman’s superior or her master.”
    ~ Ahhh, I agree. I completely agree, Spogmai. But remember that this verse, number 4:34, has been and always will be interpreted in a million different, often opposing, ways. The question that always bothers me is who the heck is right and who’s wrong? How do we decide which interpretation is correct? Since we (Muslims) think that the earlier interpretations are closest to the “correct” interpretations of Islam, we absolutely REFUSE to accept more progressive interpretations of controversial verses like this. I think that’s really harmful because that verse was originally interpreted to mean that *men are superior to women.* Is this a wrong interpretation? I don’t think so. I think that the interpreter of those time had as much a right to interpret it in a way that would be suitable and acceptable for their society and time as we do *today* to interpret in *our* way in order to make it acceptable for our time/society. Hence, since today, women aren’t universally viewed as inferiors of men, it’s absolutely unfair and wrong to claim that the term “qawwamoon” indicates the superiority of women.

    Let me also add that when we take controversial verses and terms like this one (others are “nushooz”(verses 4:34 and 4:128), “dharab” (4:34), and “zauj” (used all over)) and use them in support of or against any particular claims, we should be very careful. These verses and terms require deep analysis, and students today are doing their PhD theses on them, and books are being – and have been – written on the definition, the complication, and the positive and negative implications of just ONE particular word used in the Quran, or sometimes one particular verse. That goes to show that the Quran isn’t as easy to understand or interpret as we want it to be… or maybe it actually is very simple, but our societal norms, many of which are actually against the Quran/hadith, make it just that difficult for us and we’re forced to overanalyze something that God is prolly laughing at us for doing.

    ~ Quoting Spogmai: “This only means that in running a home and bringing up a family, it is for the man, with his more active capabilities, to earn living, deal with all official matters, and, when called upon, defend his country.”
    I’ll covert my response to this below, but about the last point in your comment (“defend his country”), I wanna ask … what does it mean to defend a country? If you’re referring to playing a role in the army, then …. may I ask, can a woman also defend her country IF she ever wants to? Can a woman, according to divine law, join the army or participate in war – by actually directly fighting, not just by nursing the male soldiers? Keep in mind that Islam does not say a woman cannot do that; it is Muslims who tell us she can’t – God never said it. Don’t forget that Aisha, the Prophet’s most beloved wife, was not only the leader of and a participant in but the initiator of the Battle of Camel. This incident, however, can be (and has been) interpreted in different ways: some say that it means a woman CAN lead not just a war/battle but anything, including a nation or state; they also say that it means a woman can directly fight in a war to defend her country if she wants to. Others say that since the battle was a big mistake and wasn’t in favor of the Muslims, it “proves” a woman’s weakness – that she must not only not lead a battle, she should not even participate in it.
    Who is right, and who’s right? And how do we decide?

    That was just a complicated response to your point that men are to defend their nation when it’s called for. :D

    Oh, and … would it be Islamically acceptable (if not in practice in Muslim societies, then in theory at least) for some families to have their women serve in the army while other families send away their men? And no households have BOTH the man and the woman go away to “serve” the nation so that children have at least one parent to take care of them?

  51. ~ Quoting Spogmai: “A man is by nature more suited to such tasks, and that is why it is in the nature of things that they should be his responsibilities and not woman’s.”
    Is it really *by nature* that he’s more suited to such tasks, or is it rather evolutionary due to society’s demands and roles for him? Biologically speaking, when you don’t make use of something – be it a faculty – you will gradually lose that faculty altogether. (This is according to evolution, and I understand that not all Muslims believe in all evolution.) Also according to biology, the more you use something, the more useful it’s going to become. I think this is common sense, actually. Now, is man physically stronger than a woman because it was always this way, or is it because his physical activities (such as hunting and fighting large bears) outside the home since the beginning of humanity made him the way he is today? On the same token, was woman always this passive being by “nature,” or is it only because ever since the beginning, she has been busy producing children and taking care of indoor activities, none of which require strong muscles and hard work?

    Did women not work in the fields alongside their brothers, fathers, husbands until recently? (Actually, some do it today, too.) How’s that any different from a woman’s working anywhere (k, maybe except companies and such)? Does her work in the field keep her away from her children?

    In Greek and Roman societies, women were kept away from sports, not only to play them but to watch them as well. The reason was that their culture was for men to play without clothes, and … well, for women to be without clothes was/is not acceptable. Was this to mean that women should NEVER play sports in ANY culture? No, not at all. But other cultures interpreted it to mean that women aren’t good enough to play sports, and even today, we have many societies worldwide in which women are not permitted to play a damn sport. We’re taught to think that it’s because men’s physique makes them more fit for sports and women’s don’t.

    Does man behave the way he does (e.g., not emotional (at least in public)) because he’s male or because society makes him that way? Does he dress differently than women do because he’s *by nature inclined to do so* or simply because of traditional norms? Does man not wear make-up and women does because there’s something innate, something natural about who should wear make-up and wear skirts/dresses/high heels/earrings/mekhakee/etc. and who shouldn’t, or is it simply out of tradition? What do we do to men who wear make up or dress like women? Does every single society has its men dress and behave a certain way and its women another way, different from the men?

  52. No, no, no, don’t misunderstand this. I’m *not* saying that men and women should look and behave and dress the same way by any means. I acknowledge the physiological differences between men and women, but I want to challenge the way society treats and views these differences. People like you two and me will argue that these differences do NOT mean that women be treated any worse than men, or that they be denied basic human rights (such as to education, a say in marriage, etc.), but let’s agree that it is DUE to these differences that women always have been and continue being mistreated in every culture, including our own. I read an article recently titled “Is Woman to Nature as Man is to Culture?” The author stated that there MUST be some logic behind women’s subjugation and mistreatment, since every culture has done it in the past or is doing it today. And she basically reasoned that: the woman’s biological and natural ability to produce kids made people decide she should stay at home to give birth, spend time with the child once it’s born, raise the kid, produce another one, and repeat what she did with the first one. This did not give her much time to leave home and hunt with her male family members (who were out hunting for food) now did it? And it’s not like those people had the same leisure activities that we do today so that women could join their male counterparts in those activities. Note that the men are always outside the home while the women then have no choice but to stay at home if they want to have kids.

    By the way, a VERY interesting point the author made was that man while women produce humans, who don’t last for long, men go out and produce things that last for hundreds and thousands of years – like civilizations, cultures, schools, cities, etc. This is what her title was referring to: women is to “nature” (her natural abilities keep her away from playing a role in outside-the-home activities) while man is the “culture” (although there’s nothing NATURAL about his “ability” to build civilizations, just because he is not given the ability to carry and give birth to kids, he decides to be involved outside the home not just to work but also to play a role in history and every other field of life – hence creating “culture”!).

    ~ Quoting Spogmai: … “her gentleness and affection all fit her admirably for domesticity, to which she is certainly better adapted than her male counterpart.”

    GOOD you said “she is certainly better ADAPTED” ;)

    ~ Quoting: “Today the social boundaries set by time-honored conventions have broken down,…”
    How long do you suppose it took societies to see women as “inferiors” of men only because women were involved in only household tasks, having children and cooking/cleaning/etc. while men went out and explored the world, built and destroyed and re-built civilizations? Well, me, I think it took time – a long time. And it’ll take perhaps just as much time for people to start accepting women as just as capable of doing I guess “men’s jobs” as men themselves. Hence, many centuries later, it’ll be considered a “time-honored convention” for women to work outside their homes, and those who want to rise up and say, “No, women should give more time to their children. Their being away from home is not good for our society, for it’s breaking it further apart,” will actually be breaking the time-honored conventions…. Don’t you think?

    What is “tradition”? In Japan, a decade or two ago, a new musical band came into being, and they decided to combine “traditional” Japanese music with … “modern” music. They had thousands of fans but even more enemies. Their enemies argued that this band is trying to devalue Japanese traditional music, but the band and its supporters argued, “But in thousands of years, what WE are doing today will ALSO become ‘traditional’ because our ‘traditional’ music wasn’t ALWAYS traditional.”

    Do you get my point, gulono?

  53. ~ Quoting Spogmai: “However, what a feminist fails to understand is that universal male dominance stems not from social oppression but fundamental differences between the sexes.”
    Na… the feminist says that women are oppressed universally *because* the physiological differences between men and women have been interpreted to mean that a woman belongs in one place while the man belongs elsewhere, and that neither must enter the other’s domain.

    ~ Quoting Spogmai: “If it really were true that male dominance was due to social conditioning rather than innate male qualities, then surely somewhere in the world at some time a society would have evolved in which women were dominant. None has!”
    Well … let’s define dominance. What does it mean? Should it be defined by leadership? If so, what is leadership, then? And I may be wrong, but I think it contradicts your earlier argument that “qawwam” doesn’t mean superior or dominant. Are you saying there has never existed a society in which women were “qawwam” over men?
    But … normally speaking, are you sure that’s never been the case? ~scratching chin~ I once read a joke somewhere that before Muslims invaded us innocent Pukhtuns, our women were the leaders; we were the dominant force :D lol. But, no, jokes aside, there HAVE existed societies run by women. It was the norm in the Native American cultures (now completely wiped out by the great Brits/Americans!) for women to be the providers and leaders. There currently exists one in Sumatra, Indonesia, and they’re Muslim, too. I’ve always wondered how on earth it’s possible that a matriarchal society can ever be compatible with Islam, but looking into several different interpretations of the Quran, we can see that Islam CAN be interpreted in a non-patriarchal way, if we let our minds be open to the mere idea of it. I’ll elaborate on this if either of you wants me to.

    Some sources will tell us that, no, never has a matriarchal society ever existed; others will tell us they have. I guess it’d require visiting Indonesia to be sure. (You and I will go together there one day, ka khairee! k? Could be a great project to work on :D)

    ~ Quoting: “Men have always been the leaders in public affairs and the final authorities at home. This does not mean men are better than women: Not better, but different.”
    Then what does it mean to be “better”? :P Why should men have the final authorities at home, though? Does that, too, have to do with their physique? What’s so natural about a man’s having the ultimate say in every affair both inside and outside the home? C’mon, marey. I know this is impractical at the moment, but ... why can’t our society have it such that both man and woman communicate with each other and discuss the seriousness of important matters that are going to affect them both as individuals and as a society? And why can’t they then make a decision *together*? For instance, in cases where the woman (the specific woman in question, not women in genera) is more familiar with the subject – say, like, it’s a medical matter, and she’s a doctor – then she should have the final say, but in cases where the husband is more familiar or more knowledgeable about something, he should have the final say? This way, neither is lagging, and both are cooperating.

  54. ~ Quoting Spogmai: “These differences flow from the biological natures of man and woman and Islam realizes this fundamental fact by giving them different spheres of activity.”
    Keep in mind that although one interpretation of the Quran makes the man head of the household, the main provider for the family, the Quran never prescribes any specific roles for the woman ~winks~ The reason I focus on the Quran here is that (we claim) it’s for all people of all times. This means interpreting and re-interpreting the Quran over and over so that it can *prove* to be for all people of all times, and not have only one specific interpretations and say that “this interpretation applies to ALL people of ALL times.” Hadith, on the other hand, are already interpretations of what was said by the Prophet (pbuh) because they are always narrated by *someone else*. It is very unlikely that if I tell you something, you will pass it down to someone else in the exact same words I said it to you in. Correct? Lemme also remind you that many hadith are often taken entirely out o context, and how would we know which ones aren’t? How many of us are willing to spend our entire life analyzing them and figuring out their meaning? The Quran, however, wasn’t passed down by word of mouth like the hadith were, so it’s far more trustworthy…. Umm, just in case you’re wondering why I’m saying this, it’s because hadith are usually the ones that specify men’s and women’s roles in society; the Quran never does.

    ~ Quoting: “In respect of biology, men and women are not equal, both are not meant to shoulder an equal amount of burden.”
    I’ve disused “equality” above, but there’s a reason I didn’t mention it in my post :p and that’s that discussing the “equality” or “inequality” of men and women is not a simple task. In fact, I don’t think men and women are equal at all, since – as you said – we are not biologically equal. But, Spogmai, do we have to be biologically equal in order to be treated as good as men are, to have the same basic human rights that men have and have always had? Should we have the same rights to education, marriage, divorce, etc.? How do we decide that? Do women have to look like men in order to be philosophers/thinkers/intellectuals, scientists, researchers, etc. the way men always have been? Can a woman be both a great scholar and a good wife/mother at the same time, trying to stay at home as much as she is required to due to religious and cultural norms? Would any society ever allow for a female version of, say, Aristotle or Plato? How many female scholars of Islam do we have today, and how many have we had during the last 1400 years? No, of course it’s not that Islam doesn’t allow for women to be scholars – but could it be POSSIBLE that perhaps women are too busy being wives and mothers to be scholars? Can the lack of scholarship among women be problematic for Muslim women, do you think? And IF it’s problematic, how can it be solved?

    Whew. That was a mouthful of questions :O Toba me da!

    Kha, nor ba bya shee :D lol. Zama bass tey oss :p

  55. ahaaaaaaaaa

    da nazara ma shay gulono....kash che tole pukhtani jona da shehnaz au spogami pa rang she no bia gora che pukhtana kom zai ta rasee.realy i appreciate the comments of shehnaz,spogmai and khogman..but mostly i agree with shehnaz approach...this iz what i feel at the moment...
    the depressed status of women iz not the story of today ,rather it has roots in ancient history thats why unconciously women as she born feel depressed....for example take the case of childhood toys..for men we have jeeps,guns,etc for women we have dolls,houses,da goday godagee wada,etc.From this childhood we penetrate in girls unconcious/concious some sort of already specified gender role.The same going on till pubirity and onward age..Another thing which i felt is women wants male child rather than female(i have asked this from so many married women) .It is also just because of insecurity feel unconciously by women due to male dominated society.Once the women get married she has to play multi roles like wife,daughter in law,mother,wrandar,daughter.She has to fullfil her each role according to the expectations of family or society..
    Due to male dominance women got complex and puzzled psyche.She feels herself in a fogy role..She pay unpaid hidden service to her family inside home.But all this will chang as the time pass .For me this iz evolutionary phenomena than revoultionary as in our society context.Take for example the role of women in Thailand(bangkok).Over there i found 98% women working in shops and foothpaths selling different items. i was wonder what their men doing and resulted that some driving taxies while remaining counting money earned by women.I observed women selling items and at the same time they care for their children setting aside and playing in bazars.I felt so sypathy for them.And when i asked to buy something and then left the shop without shopping they suddenly tell plz sir take some items we have to feed our children and husband.This was another imbalance situation for me....Even you will see in bangkok many many women at night working as registered prostitute,standing in street waiting for frustrated customer..i have been told that those women who dont earn enough money in morning shops have registered themselves as pros for night earning...this was extremely inhuman treatment but they have to survive.

  56. All this gender biased problms are human oriented and only human has to slove it.God will never step down on earth to solve it for us.He only gave us fundamental guidlines in his divine book and we have to follow in our own cultural context..We have to ignore tradiontal mulla's misinterpreted biased approach towards women.We must realize that women iz a full human like men.
    Allah pa zmaka da tolo na hkole dalai khaza paida kare kho saree pe der zulam kare au dera e exploit kare...kha au bad her zai k we kho che kala bad der she no hagha lag kha hm pake wrak she..hase kho iqbal na de wele ''wajood e zan se hay taswer e kaainaat me rang''......
    Bus ba ko yara domra khabarem okre che oge e kro...da khogman khabara da comment hazmawal hm pora dre wraze ghwaree...lagya yu os pe shkhwand waho no...... islamabad ke kho dase khwaga yakhne da ch ila pake chai au vegetable samosai maza kae.hmmmmmmmm
    au shennaz os senga e bemara shawe e au awaz de hm boogh shawe laka da rani mukar awaz tape ke record ka che bia e aure no maza ba darkaee..@ spogmai kho pa FB yau taa oke au bia lara she da ghar na panah she....khwand ba e ala kare we che mung tol nast we au face to face mo da debates kawale shwe..that iz what i feel now..kho za lekal hm filhal der de....shehnaz ta mung dree wanro la da americe viza oka che darsho au same qrate darsara lekalo kho JO stare sho...
    Yau swat wala na cha tapos oko che kalima owaya ,hagha wrta owe''La ilaha Illallah JO Muhammad urrasolullah.:):)
    no worry ...just barri.

  57. Alaaaa Parwardigara da sa de?...ta kho sam pa "meteor" marrey za kha! Da de kho pa lawasto gran de patey la jawab ma kho ye da wass na da "body tremor" hagha narai khwala (sweat) rawasta...makham ta ba da khaira sama shabara taba jorra shawee we...
    Dase kar wo kana Qrratugai che yao jalgar (fisherman) wo jo maho newalo la larro. Sahar wakhtee che ye jal (net) pa seend ke warwachao jo yawa karerra (small fish) ye pakey wa newa...bya khwar ghareeb tola wraz ligya wo kho pa jal ke mahee na by che ba har war jal tash rawakhato jalgar ba manda krra aw haghey yewey kererrey la ba ye yao praq (slap) warkrro aw wayal ba ye: "ayyyy ta kho me newaley ye kana". No za hum sta hagha newaley karerra yam...
    Qrratugai, I have no hesitation in saying quite categorically, that most of the things you say hold true, and zrra me rata wayee che marrey take it as quiet as lambs kho it is my profound conviction that our differences on fundamentals are still also realize, in reading your posts over, that I am no match, in particular, how deep and fearful I am of the problem I am casually biting into, but that is not going to prevent me from expressing my thoughts boldly. I will ka khairee!

    Aw de Nawaz Khan da pakey la gora...toley lekaney ye sta da arguments khilaf zee aw pa khwla wayee che "Cheers to feminism". Da da sara kho ba za poha sham ka khairee!

  58. Zalimano taso kho pora 'Research Papers' dalta da comments pa zai
    Hmmm......da dey "research papers" hagha tash 'skimming' dapara at least zama pa shaan kundzehna la yawa hafta pakaar da :)...well what can I say kho hagha khabara "WE AGREE TO DISAGREE".....ka sanga??....deray dasey khabarey likaley shawee che I just don't agree with that thinking and I'd have my answers (or maybe questions) to those once I collect my thoughts on these reading worthy comments......kho da dey spera kaar na che raata lag time milaw shee :).....meeting after meeting :(.
    Kho Qrratugai khorey, dher pa dranawee, u went way over the top....Astaghpirullah!! :) Personally, I don't have or see any problem with women rights and their true status in our society and we all are on the same page on that and we own and accept this problem in our social set-up/culture.... we have to work for just and friendly environment for women and we should strive to achieve such by setting our own personal examples not merely talking on the Blogs. We are lucky enough that we enjoy all these things but majority of our pakhtoon families don't have the means or resources to make their lives better or even think for a slight moment that their destinies, their heart-wrenching situations will change too soon. So we agree that it does need changes by education, understanding and implementation of our true faith and teachings and our core values. BUT.....if its something that has been sugar-coated with all this wishy washy stuff just to ridicule our values and faith and demonize the opposite gender then I have a problem with that and can't make my mind for that. It might be a "PROGRESSIVE" or "ENLIGHTENED" thinking for some kho with all due respect I don't buy into that argument. I'll write SOMETHING later Insha-Allah (I mean something not a research paper like not that much as you wrote (taso ta kho ta khpalo "Khyalato" likalo/awrawalo kha muqqa ao zamung pa shaan kha awredoonkee darta milaw shawee:)).... da Nawaz Khan wrore sara mey itifaaq dey che pakaar da vezae ra ulegai a mung la yao get-together arrange krrey che makha-makh yao bal sara da khabrey discuss krro zaka che sometime we just get lost in communications....wayel ba yaw sa ghwarrey ao matlab ba trey bal sa jorr shee :).
    As I told you guys earlier that we have to write according to the little knowledge we have and put our point of view (and I consider myself as the less-educated mong you all :() otherwise to me, as I said earlier, convincing idealogues, ao hagha hum bia feminists, TOBA KHUDAYA will write something more specific later Insha-Allah.

    Spogmai~sanga chal dey??...ta kho bekhee ghaiba ye?.....ghair hazeri dey registered kegee darpasey :).......I know you'd be working on formulating a balanced reply kho I thought dasey na bia dey da pozey na soor kashmeeray jorr shawey kidding.....Allah mo kha sata!

  59. kana bkahna ghwarram staso gher-hazeree pa hazarai badala shwa :)....actually what happened that we were writing at the smae time and when I posted my comment i saw da gher-hazerai da comment mey cherta mind na kai.....:)

  60. LMAO!!!! hahahahahahaha ... fine, fine. I'm sorry about all this. Nor sa wakam, maro, I have a research paper to be working on, and I was thinking, "Damn, why didn't I choose THIS topic!?!" Sar khpal shukom zaka che da haghe papere da paara me ila bila pinza ka shpag pages lekali dee, ao pa de feminism kho some bookuna lekaley sham ~cries all seven oceans~

    Za khair dey eba. As I told you all before and as Spogmai Jaan already knows, I'm not up for convincing people to think my way, neither will I willingly fall for a new thought unless it makes perfect sense to me and I can understand it fully. Da Aristotle Saab yao quote (matal?) dey, wayi, wayi che "It is the mark of an educated mind to entertain a thought without accepting it." Nu dessi chal kao, warho, che discussions ke daa soch wanakoo che hagha bal kass convince ku che hagha pa ghalata dey ao mung pakhpala pa sahee yu. Laka pa har sa ke makhke shu without agreeing with anything or accepting it as our personal conviction. Che sri[ khabar yu daa qisa shti, hum dagha pura da.

    Khugmanda, I am all for the idea of agreeing to disagree, but ... lol. The thing with that thinking is that it puts an end to what I believe could be a fruitful discussion, kana. Laka, it just shuts off all further questions and answers and thoughts just because people disagree. I think that should be used only for those who go on and on and on and on in circles but never really have a point (you wouldn't be wrong to conclude that *I* don't have a point either, though, of course, LOL! I'm not sure if Qrratugai's qrrate EVER have a point, really!)

  61. Zama yao loye armaan dey che charta pa Swat or somewhere else ke me pa school ke kaar kawal shoro krral, kana, nu yao Debate Team ya Discussion Forum (for the youth) ba shoro kom. The students can decide themselves what they want to discuss, or I can give the topics myself when they run out, but it'd be a way to give them some space to think out loud, to ask the questions that a conservative society like ours forbids its innocent young members, and to share knowledge that they have with others who might not have that. Or just to let their frustrations out, hahahha. (I'm actually in the process of creating something like that at a Mosque here, so hopefully it'll be a good start, ka khairee, and will give me some experience to get it done in Swat within the next twenty years or so! Spogmai ba ye raasara kai, kana. Wo.)

    Nawaz, LOL! Khugman hum yao so wraze makhke lekalee wo weye, "Zama yao malgarey wai che Swatyan che kalima wai nu wai 'Laa ilaha illallah, JO Muhammadur rasoolullah.'" LOL! :D Sa waku, mara, dre Swatyan darta pa yaozey ke naast dee :D

    Spogmai :P Ghalee sha, babo. Cheers to feminism all right :D :D lol. Toghe kom, toghe.

  62. @Qrratugai ~ da comments hesaab kitaab ba kao ka khairee kho just a side comment (and please don't laugh at me kha?)....Pa dey Blog dey da yao 'follower' da avatar da "STARGA" warkarrey da, I guess someone names "Mariam A", it just scares the hell out of pa dey che zama stargey oolagee no wem che ta ya Spogmai lagya da goree rata aw yaw yaw takey mey note kai che sa mey
    Well it was just a side comment,,,,,buss nore sa na woo che likaley me wey and I just want to write something ma wel cha da Blog derla lag skha krram :) na comments jawab ba darkomw ka khairee.....LOL!

  63. LMAO, Khugman!!!!! :D :D

    Na, na, Spogmai and I don't do that, mara, lollllllll!! Dagha followers za edit/delete kawaley na sham kana sa chal ba me warsara karey wo che taso dumra tangai, lol.

  64. @Khugman quoting: "Pa dey Blog dey da yao 'follower' da avatar da "STARGA" warkarrey da, ... it just scares the hell out of"
    Your fears are not quite out-of-sync...bas dua kawa che Khwdey ye ba ghaltai hum ra na walee! lol

  65. @Spogmai :"......bas dua kawa che Khwdey ye ba ghaltai hum ra na walee! lol"

    Da sa wae? buss dey no! Qrratugai kho rapasey hasey hum da 'feminism' ghakhoona tera karree ao che dasey wersara da yarey yao so nore hum yaw zai shee no bia kho rasha ka tawdegey :)......mung kho hasey hum da dey foramunoo na larey takhtoo ao ila cherta da gupshup rata sa zai milaw shawey wo....bia kho Khudai khabar, buss asey patt patt 'thaa' ba kawo ao staso da garma garam behsoona ta ba nookoona!

  66. @Khugman~ Na marra da Qrratugai pa bara ke khatir jama lara...her Pukhtun constitution is made up of simple particulars kho hasey munga tanga wee, kana trust me she is a "devout" and by no means she be considered a "deadwood on the ship of Islam"...(Qrratugai ta hal ma waya kho right now she is simmering in the soup of feminism but it is a transitory period aw ka khairee Khudey pak ba trena pa western dunya ke da deen loi kar akhlee) hasey da de baley na yara pakar da)...ka raghla no bya charta kirrkai gora che wardango tre...or the other alternative would be to turn ourselves into sycophants, lackeys and flunkeys jo bya ba rana khushala wee aw munga dwanrra ba khapa lol

  67. @Spogmai:"Na marra da Qrratugai pa bara ke khatir jama lara......kho hasey munga tanga wee,...."

    LOL! shukar dey da kho dher khushala shoom......taso pa yao bal poha yai kho asey zamunga sadagaano na khabarey

    @Spogmai: " bya charta kirrkai gora che wardango tre...."

    Hahahaha.....just imagining that 'wardangal' :)
    Sahee mo welee it would be hard to become those typical sycophants, las pa naama her

  68. LOL! :P Kha, warho, let's talk about something fun ... LOL. I'll open a new post in which we can do gup shup after this long and painful post. Kha da? hahhaha

  69. Feminism is the notion of the US power elite to make woman a market commodity.It has least to do with women rights and most to do with making up men's nights.

  70. I agree with Pir Rokhan. During the past one week I went through hundreds of articles on feminism and the results, however, have been no gain to humanity, while the harm done is too much even to quantify.

  71. za kho pa de sher dlta hpla qisa raghwandom,,,

    za feminism ta pa de nazar goram

    '' pukhtani jona you,ihsas laro zuban hm laro
    pa saa dobi mahol ke jwand kao izhaar na laro''

    swatyaan na de da BAN TOTYAAN de au da wisdom na daka chagha kae and i loved that...

  72. What, what, what? :O I didn't get *any* of that, Anonymous! :)


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